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Old 06-06-2006, 11:25 AM   #46
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


There are several in the UK. The government pays for it. They even pay for a laundry service to come to the house twice a day, because their linens have to be washed daily. Besides their appearence and thrice daily cream routine, the girls go to school, go out with friends, have jobs, etc.


i think there are exactly two -- those two girls.

but i could be wrong.

even still ... i am reminded of a course i took on medical ethics once. we saw a video about a man who had been *severely* burned in a freak accident in the 1970s. he was blinded, and spent 3 years getting skin grafts, which back then (and perhaps today, am not an expert on this) were incredibly painful. he said it was like being boiled in oil every day for 3 years, and the video was equally unnerving -- basically him screaming and begging for mercy, asking the doctors to stop and to let him die. the doctors obviously couldn't do that, since he would recover, and he did, though he is now severely disfigured, blind, and with limited mobility.

to this day, he wishes he had been allowed to die than to undergo three years of torture.

i suppose the point i'm trying to make is that it is suffering that i am most concerned with -- i don't think that life is so precious that it must be endured at any cost. i also think that such extreme suffering, as would be the case with most Harlequin babies, is very, very, very rare. this is not being born with Down's. this is not being born with MS. this is something completely different, and it strikes me as unethical for us to fetishize "life" to such an extent that we make others suffer unnecessarily.
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:44 AM   #47
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i think there are exactly two -- those two girls.

but i could be wrong.

even still ... i am reminded of a course i took on medical ethics once. we saw a video about a man who had been *severely* burned in a freak accident in the 1970s. he was blinded, and spent 3 years getting skin grafts, which back then (and perhaps today, am not an expert on this) were incredibly painful. he said it was like being boiled in oil every day for 3 years, and the video was equally unnerving -- basically him screaming and begging for mercy, asking the doctors to stop and to let him die. the doctors obviously couldn't do that, since he would recover, and he did, though he is now severely disfigured, blind, and with limited mobility.

to this day, he wishes he had been allowed to die than to undergo three years of torture.

i suppose the point i'm trying to make is that it is suffering that i am most concerned with -- i don't think that life is so precious that it must be endured at any cost. i also think that such extreme suffering, as would be the case with most Harlequin babies, is very, very, very rare. this is not being born with Down's. this is not being born with MS. this is something completely different, and it strikes me as unethical for us to fetishize "life" to such an extent that we make others suffer unnecessarily.
Nope, there are at least four because the doc I saw featured only two families with two each. But they have a support group so I think there's more.

Anyway, like you are saying, to be functional with this disease is rare. And even so I think melon just chose it as an example, not as THE disease through which lens to view abortion.

In general, I would not abort because I would not have the amnio tests to being with. However, if others chose to abort, that's their choice and doesn't change my opinion about them as parents or my opinion regarding my own choice.


The thing that now comes up in my mind is, if it's OK to abort to spare the child suffering, what about euthanizing the baby immediately after it's born? I don't know if there have been any real cases, but I recently watched a Law & Order episode where a baby died. The long story short was, the baby was born and the Dr. immediately identified it as having a condition where it would quickly degenerate and become a veggetable. Not only that, but there was a physical component to the disease that would cause the baby to be in severe pain. It was called Taysack or something that sounds like that. Anyway, the mother got a drug from the Dr. and painlessly killed the baby, it basically fell asleep and died peacefully in her arms.

How do you guys respond to this?
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:45 AM   #48
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Originally posted by Irvine511

and it strikes me as unethical for us to fetishize "life" to such an extent that we make others suffer unnecessarily.
I agree with that in principle, but I don't necessarily think (and I may be wrong) that a harlequin baby's suffering is even remotely comparable to the level of pain of a burn victim.

High maintenance yes, excrutiating constant pain that can't be alieviated? I doubt it.
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Old 06-06-2006, 12:13 PM   #49
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I agree with that in principle, but I don't necessarily think (and I may be wrong) that a harlequin baby's suffering is even remotely comparable to the level of pain of a burn victim.

i really don't know -- if there are any MD's on the board, perhaps they know.

what about the burn victim? thoughts about euthanizing him at his request?

to be honest, if i were him, i think i'd rather be dead as well. i know there are rare cases of people with severe head-to-toe burns (i caught a few moments of an Oprah show about some beautiful woman who was in a firey accident and was severely disfigured) who have lived and had, i assume, productive lives.

but i don't know that i would want to continue, would that were me. i really don't know.
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Old 06-06-2006, 12:16 PM   #50
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i really don't know -- if there are any MD's on the board, perhaps they know.

what about the burn victim? thoughts about euthanizing him at his request?

to be honest, if i were him, i think i'd rather be dead as well. i know there are rare cases of people with severe head-to-toe burns (i caught a few moments of an Oprah show about some beautiful woman who was in a firey accident and was severely disfigured) who have lived and had, i assume, productive lives.

but i don't know that i would want to continue, would that were me. i really don't know.
Yes, burn cases are hard for me to even think about. Once I saw a morning talk show and the theme was mothers who had terrible things happen to them and their kids. One of the moms had three kids and this one time, she left them in their minivan to get something from the apartment. Of course, this ONE time, something started on fire and the kids couldn't get out. They were all severely burned, but the youngest two were burnt so bad their entire bodies looked disfigured. It was horrible to see the babies crying in pain all the time and the mother crying because there was nothing she could do...I could harldly watch after a while.
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Old 06-06-2006, 12:17 PM   #51
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
The thing that now comes up in my mind is, if it's OK to abort to spare the child suffering, what about euthanizing the baby immediately after it's born? I don't know if there have been any real cases, but I recently watched a Law & Order episode where a baby died. The long story short was, the baby was born and the Dr. immediately identified it as having a condition where it would quickly degenerate and become a veggetable. Not only that, but there was a physical component to the disease that would cause the baby to be in severe pain. It was called Taysack or something that sounds like that. Anyway, the mother got a drug from the Dr. and painlessly killed the baby, it basically fell asleep and died peacefully in her arms.

How do you guys respond to this?


yes, i believe it is called Tay-Sachs, and it is a terrible, degenerative, hereditary disease.

i would think that the kindest option would be to terminate the pregnancy or to euthanize the baby.

however, simply because it is the kindest option doesn't mean that it isn't a sticky, difficult situation, especially because with euthanasia, you're necessarily involving a doctor in the taking of human life (and, please, this is such a good discussion, let's not get into "but isn't abortion really euthanasia so how can you be for one and not the other, or why are you concerned with a doctor asked to euthanize a patient but not with an abortion doctor"), and i don't think that's something that sits easily on the chest of a doctor.

what about Lou Gherig's disease? would you choose euthanasia?

all very, very difficult questions, and really the only answer i can give with certainty, beyond wanting to create a situation that involved the least amount of suffering for all involved (especially my theoretical child), is that i am very, very grateful to have been born healthy and that all members of my immediate family have been born healthy.
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Old 06-06-2006, 12:18 PM   #52
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I support the legalization of euthanasia.

But there are issues that have to be addressed like who can make the choice, what their mental state has to be at the time and so on.
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Old 06-06-2006, 12:53 PM   #53
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I support the legalization of euthanasia.

But there are issues that have to be addressed like who can make the choice, what their mental state has to be at the time and so on.
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Old 06-06-2006, 12:57 PM   #54
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I support the legalization of euthanasia.

But there are issues that have to be addressed like who can make the choice, what their mental state has to be at the time and so on.
Yes, I agree. I'm sure it would create a litigious nightmare.
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Old 06-07-2006, 04:17 AM   #55
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I agree with euthanasia wholeheartedly. Newborns are one of the groups I am not sure if I agree to it applying to, though. Just not sure.
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:14 AM   #56
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I'm 100% Pro-Choice, so i would consider to exercise my right to abort on all of the thread starter's "Hypotheticals".
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Old 04-18-2007, 05:33 PM   #57
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1. I found this one to be the toughest to think about. I'm a bit ashamed to think I may go through with an abortion, just because I dont agree with them when it comes to me personally. I refuse to judge anyone that's had them or anyone that will. Opinions on the whole are just that, one persons opion and feelings. So no, I don't agree with abortions, but what's been done is done and I'm not going to stop being someones friend or loving a family member if they decided to do that.
All in all.....that's a decision my husband and I would have to make together. If we decided the best thing to do would be to have the baby, then it's just that. I'd have the baby but give it up for adoption to someone that would want a baby and be able to love it unconditionally. That, I don't think I could do. I wouldnt be able to bring the child up as mine and ask my husband to try to care for it. That would be asking way to much of him.


2-4 though---I'd have the baby and take care of it for as long and as best as I could.
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Old 04-18-2007, 07:40 PM   #58
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Interesting thread to get bumped
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