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Old 06-05-2006, 11:36 PM   #31
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Re: Re: Re: Hypothetical Abortion Situations...

Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
to mourn having actually delivered the baby, going through the process of having a baby, and then grieving, rather than finding out the condition of the baby and rather immediately cutting the whole process short. Does that make any sense?
It makes complete sense and I'm sure it would be a necessary and cathartic journey to closure for many people. When I think about it for me though, I don't think I could even manage my daily life during that journey under that kind of voluntary torture and emotional pain.

Also, I'm really sorry for your cousin. Miscarrying must be hard enough without going through what is essentially an abortion procedure because the baby died in utero and your body isn't responding.
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Old 06-05-2006, 11:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
My aunt and uncle have a child who is dying slowly from MS. He's eight. He might live to 20. Might. In the meantime, he's full of life. If they'd decided to abort him before he was born, they might have avoided the pain of losing the child later, but really...is that the point of life?
Your cousin and others like him are among the reasons I didn't do genetic screening (the others being highly inaccurate results, late diagnosis and in my case, statistically higher risk of miscarriage than a genetic problem).

There are some pretty incredible, loving and gifted special needs kids out there who may never have been given the chance at life. If they don't know "normal" as part of their experience, who are we to say it's not worth it for them?
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:23 AM   #33
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in my heart of hearts, i doubt i could bring myself to abort in any of the above cases. i am personally perturbed that such an option even exists to tempt me.

what i am certain of is that my God is much greater than medical science as well as the world's definition of what is healthy, normal, good and the liberties it affords me.

by the way, while i was pregnant with my first child, i was found to be at an extremely "high risk" for carrying a baby with down's syndrome and subsequently advised to go for an amniocentisis. i didn't. honestly, i was foolish to have the initial test performed in the first place. in the end, my child was born completely "normal".
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Old 06-06-2006, 05:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Are you saying you know God's will, or what God's will should be?
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Old 06-06-2006, 07:35 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by CKONE
I would support an abortion decision however I can also see me supporting the decision for birth despite the guaranteed emotional trauma from death.
In every situation there would always be emotional trauma involved if you had an abortion or not.

I don't think I would have an abortion in any of these cases, I don't think I could live with that guilt. I could never know what I would do if I ever did have to make this decision one day. It's a lot easier to make choices in a hypothetical situation.
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Old 06-06-2006, 08:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen


In every situation there would always be emotional trauma involved if you had an abortion or not.

I don't think I would have an abortion in any of these cases, I don't think I could live with that guilt. I could never know what I would do if I ever did have to make this decision one day. It's a lot easier to make choices in a hypothetical situation.
Agreed. I guess I fail to understand how aborting a baby that might have problems, the extent of which you wouldn't know until birth, is any easier, less painful, or less traumatic than carrying to term and the baby dying after one day or 35 years.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:18 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by TripThruUreWires
by the way, while i was pregnant with my first child, i was found to be at an extremely "high risk" for carrying a baby with down's syndrome and subsequently advised to go for an amniocentisis.
I was 35 with my first and the second most common question I got from friends, family and strangers (after - will you find out the sex?) related to the neccesity of doing an amnio. When I said I didn't plan to do one I'd get these puzzled and confused looks then get asked if I was just afraid of the needle. When I would say the only reason to do an amnio is to make an abortion decision and I had no intention to 'terminate' regardless that shut most people up. Others acted like it was a very irresponsible, risky and stupid move on my part - those people met my hormonally-driven inner princess of darkness lol.
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Old 06-06-2006, 09:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Are you saying you know God's will, or what God's will should be?


i am saying that i might have to defend my child from suffering through notions of "God's Will" imposed on me by other humans. that's what i was objecting to -- that it's "God's will" for a child to be born to suffer horribly and then die. if that is the case, then i want no part of that God (just as i don't want any part of a God who would send a tsunami to kill 300,000 people because it was his "will").

you can bet that i would have an abortion if i had a child with such a horrible, horrible birth defect that would pretty much guarantee a very short period of suffering while on earth and then a very early death.

and i view a case like this as something rare and exceptional. i do not see it as the same thing as MS.

personally, there's no such thing as God's will.

God doesn't have a will. it simply is.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:01 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
IMy aunt and uncle have a child who is dying slowly from MS. He's eight. He might live to 20. Might. In the meantime, he's full of life. If they'd decided to abort him before he was born, they might have avoided the pain of losing the child later, but really...is that the point of life?


and this is where individual situations must be evaluated.

the point i would make is that aborting a Harlequin baby that is going to suffer and die is not about my pain as a parent losing a child.

it's about wanting to spare the child the incredible pain it will endure by simply existing. it's about the prevention of suffering. not my suffering, the child's suffering.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:16 AM   #40
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From Wikipedia

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In San Diego, there is a harlequin sufferer named Ryan González. His treatment involves dosing with isotretinoin (also known as Accutane), the constant use of lotions to keep the skin supple, and use of a very high-calorie diet, including a feeding tube, required by the constant shedding of the skin, believed to shed seven to ten times faster than unaffected skin.

Ryan takes part in the "challenged-athletes triathlon" and swims regularly.
I'm guessing Ryan doesn't feel sorry for himself or expects anyone else to.

I respect people's right to choose in whatever situation they face but I do think we need to be careful when making assumptions about quality of life as a basis for the decision.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:26 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy
I'm guessing Ryan doesn't feel sorry for himself or expects anyone else to.


but Ryan is an exception, and Ryan was born to a family who can afford to care for him.

why do you think he's mentioned in Wikipedia when the hundreds (or thousands? i know the disease is rare, not sure how rare) who died a few days after birth are not mentioned individually by name.
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Old 06-06-2006, 10:56 AM   #42
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Because there is realistic hope...and that's all some expectant moms and dads need to hear.
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:02 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


but Ryan is an exception, and Ryan was born to a family who can afford to care for him.

There are several in the UK. The government pays for it. They even pay for a laundry service to come to the house twice a day, because their linens have to be washed daily. Besides their appearence and thrice daily cream routine, the girls go to school, go out with friends, have jobs, etc.

I guess I couldn't abort simply because of odds or whatever. A chance to be happy and live a relatively normal life is still a chance....
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:12 AM   #44
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I disagree with a lot of people on this thread but I would fight to the end for their right to choose whichever outcome they deem is best for themselves and their families.

I am not so sure that many people out there would extend the same courtesy to those of us who would terminate in the above suggested cases.
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Old 06-06-2006, 11:18 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I am not so sure that many people out there would extend the same courtesy to those of us who would terminate in the above suggested cases.
That's very true.

I have to wonder also how much courtesy is extended to people these days who have special needs children with conditions (i.e. Downs Syndrome) many people consider easily avoidable.
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