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Old 03-14-2004, 06:18 PM   #1
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Hyperterrorism by Fundamentalists

From Le Monde:

[Q]"If the trail back to Al-Qaida is confirmed, Europeans should rethink the war against Islamic fundamentalist terrorism, as did the United States after the attacks of September 11, 2001[/Q]

[Q]Will March 11 have in Europe the same effect as September 11 in the US? After having spontaneously expressed their solidarity with the Americans, the Europeans, preoccupied with other forms of terrorism, found that the Americans had become consumed with paranoia. Contrary to the latter in 2001, Europeans today discover not only their own vulnerability, but also that they are confronted with a new phenomenon, mass terrorism. Like the Americans, they may now be forced to admit that a new form of world war has been declared, not against Islam but against totalitarian and violent fundamentalism. That the world's democracies are confronted with the same menace and should act together, using military means and waging at the same time a war for their ideals."[/Q]

[Q]This political one is sketched in the "strategic concept" adopted by the twenty-five countries of the European union at the end of last year. Nevertheless the Europeans, because they were divided on the analysis of the international terrorism and on the manner to fight it, expressed themselves in this text with a lot of prudences. Without questioning the big lines of this strategy, europe has some to harden the placement in uvre because she more henceforth cannot consider itself as being outside of the battle field.

In addition the constitution project of the Convention contains a solidarity clause with all member State victim of a terrorist attack. The moment unfortunately had just to anticipate on the adoption of the constitution and to show that all europe felt hit to Madrid. [/Q]



http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,...-356472,0.html

Any thoughts?
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:39 PM   #2
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Well that gave my French skills a good workout, lol. Is there actually an English translation of the whole article available anywhere? (I don't know what organisation translated the last paragraph you quote, but the sentences barely make sense in English. )

Anyway. I suspect that a lot of people will try to portray this is a big "turn around" in the editorial policy of Le Monde, and suggest that they've somehow abandoned their opposition to the war in Iraq and some other aspects of the "war against terrorism." I don't think that's accurate. Indeed there's actually a paragraph in the article reiterating concerns about the lack of planning made prior to invading Iraq and Afghanistan and the resulting destabilisation of the region.

(Okay...I'm thinking in French now, lol...this is weird)

Naturally people in Europe are shocked by what happened in Madrid, but I don't believe that most people have taken the attacks as evidence that they ought to support the foreign policy of the United States. People were always aware that terrorism was a threat, their opposition to the policies of the United States wasn't based on the idea that it was a false threat, but on the idea that the policies such as invading Iraq weren't the correct way to confront terrorism. I don't believe that the majority of people in Europe will take the events in Spain as evidence that the foreign policy of the US has been effective in fighting terrorism.

Anyway. I doubt I'm making sense anymore since it's late and well, when do I make sense anyway? Interesting article, dread, I hope we can have some more discussion about it tomorrow.

*Fizz
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Old 03-14-2004, 09:11 PM   #3
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I'm a linguistic klutz.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:42 AM   #4
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A good complete translation would help.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:50 AM   #5
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So there isn't a translation available? I hope you don't mind me asking dread, but I'd be really curious to know where the paragraphs you quoted came from. It's just that they're not very representative of the whole article and I'd like to know why someone chose to translate only those paragraphs and not any of the other commentary.

Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:51 AM   #6
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AS far as Terrorism, I believe we just witnessed a group get voted out of office because of a well placed bomb. yes, I do believe al-Qaeda did it, and until there is evidence otherwise I will continue to believe so.

Why, because the former governement in Spain was allied with the US in the fight against terror. They have been holding al-Qaeda related 9/11 conspirators in Spanish jails.

I also believe that in their announcement, they would want peope to believe it was over Iraq. This is complete crap. al-Qaeda also wanted the overthow of Saddam, because his goverment was totorant of other religions.

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Old 03-15-2004, 11:04 AM   #7
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I don't think the vote was over Iraq. The PP were leading in the polls before the bombing. Some people were angry with the PP government over the bombing--one of the terrorists had a police record in Spain, and one had Al-Qaeda connections. There was a demonstration against the government Saturday attended by thousands of people. This stuff is scary. Last week Madrid, next week..............
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Old 03-15-2004, 04:47 PM   #8
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I was reading that too....still....I want a better translation of the entire article.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

I also believe that in their announcement, they would want peope to believe it was over Iraq. This is complete crap. al-Qaeda also wanted the overthow of Saddam, because his goverment was totorant of other religions.

PEace
I dunno, do you think al-Qaeda prefer the US controlling Iraq? I think if they had a choice they would choose Saddam. I reckon they'd be angry about a US invasion in the Middle East, regardless of which country.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:39 PM   #10
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Again I agree with iacrobat. (You should post here more often. )

Dread, is there any chance you'd post the link to the website containing the paragraphs you quoted? Thanks.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:44 PM   #11
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The link is on the first post to the article.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:46 PM   #12
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If it were about Iraq Britain woul dbe the likely target, not a country with elections three days away. It is just my opinion.

Fact is, the US is not known for occupation of other countries to establish an empire.

Maybe it is about both, however, to not recognize that the war against al-Qaeda is not ultimately the real issue is a shame.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
The link is on the first post to the article.
Sorry, I should have been more clear.

I mean the link to the website you found the translation on. The link points to the complete article on the Le Monde website, in French. I assumed you'd found the translated paragraphs elsewhere, or did you translate them yourself?

*Easily confused Fizz.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:55 PM   #14
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I did a goole and grabbed a translation site that did it for free. The first two came from an article written by an author that I do not wish to associate myself with. I then went back to the Le Mond article and put it in the translating device.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
If it were about Iraq Britain woul dbe the likely target, not a country with elections three days away. It is just my opinion.

Fact is, the US is not known for occupation of other countries to establish an empire.

Maybe it is about both, however, to not recognize that the war against al-Qaeda is not ultimately the real issue is a shame.
Actually, I wondered about this too. I figured Britain would be the next target, not Spain. But why would elections dissuade al-Qaeda from attacking?

No, the US is not known for establishing empires, but they have been know for meddling in other people's affairs. But I think that any US involvement in Middle East(the most ever?) would upset al-Qaeda.

I do agree in part, but I think it is hard to distinguish too much. Would al-Qaeda have bombed Madrid before London if Spain didn't fight in Iraq?
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