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Old 03-16-2004, 07:03 PM   #31
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Well it wasn't just the bombings, but also the Prime Minister's attempt to spin the bombings that resulted in the loss. In that regard it seems that the democratic process worked just fine.

http://www.disinfo.com/site/displayarticle2476.html
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:17 PM   #32
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There would have been no spin if the bombing had not occured, if indeed there was spin. There was so much misinformation in the days after 9/11 I find it hard to believe that there is legitimate SPIN going on.
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:24 PM   #33
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It sure seems like spin.

And you're right, there wouldn't have been any spin if the bombings had not occured. However, it seems that voters found this instance of spin to fit a pattern of deception on the part of the government, and voted accordingly.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:05 PM   #34
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What if the lines are so blurred it is too hard to tell? I posted an article that linked al-Qaeda and the ETA. It was published just days after 9/11.

yes, Spain has spoken at the voting booth. I would not have reacted this way, because it is way too early to say it was spin. My two cents.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:19 PM   #35
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[Q]It cannot be very long now before some slaughter occurs on the streets of London or Rome or Warsaw, as punishment for British and Italian and Polish membership of the anti-Saddam coalition. But perhaps there is still time to avoid the wrath to come. If British and Italian and Polish troops make haste to leave the Iraqis to their own "devices" (of the sort that exploded outside the mosques of Karbala and Najaf last month), their civilian cousins may still hope to escape the stern disapproval of the holy warriors. Don't ask why the holy warriors blow up mosques by the way—it's none of your goddam crusader-Jew business.[/Q]

http://slate.msn.com/id/2097138/
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Old 03-16-2004, 11:03 PM   #36
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Oh, great. I have family in Rome. Am I scared? You bet.
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:15 AM   #37
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One other point.....

If al-Qaeda is indeed responsisble, this action also helps its role in Iraq right now. There have been news reports of foreign fighters doing much of the continued fighting in Iraq. Why is it foreign fighters? Could it be that a good portion of Iraqi society believes that they are currently better off than they were before the war? I wish I had saved the interviews with some of the foreign troops captured complaining that the Iraqi people were not participating in the Jihad against the American invaders.

How does the bombing in Spain help? Maybe it helps in Iraq because it shows the Iraqi people that they can hurt the coalition. Maybe it helps them in recruiting a new group of terrorists.
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Old 03-17-2004, 07:18 AM   #38
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One more thing...

If what I am reading is correct, then I would have voted against the PP too. If the accused LYING is true then I would have been ripped.
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Old 03-18-2004, 10:54 PM   #39
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[Q]Thousands of protesters accused Spain's new prime minister of being "the president of al-Qaida" in demonstrations Wednesday to support the defeated party of outgoing leader Jose Maria Aznar.

About 5,000 people gathered outside the conservative Popular Party's headquarters in downtown Madrid. Waving Spanish flags and banners, they were protesting the upset win by Socialist leader Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero in Sunday elections that were shaken by terrorist bombings three days earlier.

"Zapatero, president of al-Qaida," "Zapatero with terrorism" and "Zapatero resign," they chanted.

The protesters dispersed about 30 minutes after the Popular Party's defeated candidate, Mariano Rajoy, appeared and applauded at a balcony.

Evidence increasingly points to Islamic extremist involvement -- possibly al-Qaida -- the bombings that killed 201 people on March 11.

The attacks refocused attention on Aznar's decision to back the U.S.-led war in Iraq, hugely unpopular in Spain. At protests on the eve of the election, demonstrators accused Aznar of making Spain a target for terrorists. The anger among voters helped tip the election for Zapatero, who had trailed in polls before the bombings.
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...251EST0639.DTL
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Old 03-18-2004, 10:57 PM   #40
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Yeah, well considering that this was 5000 people and MORE THAN A MILLION marched against the war last year, it's worthwhile pointing that out.
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Old 03-18-2004, 11:06 PM   #41
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Amazing...so many upset and ignore the fact that the polls coming out of Iraq from at least two sources that I am aware of indicate that Iraqi's are pleased and better off than they were before the war.

However, the world will continue to ignore that....and allow Terrorists to paint a different picture.

I forgot...March 11 was George Bush's fault. No wait it was the President of Spain's fault....

God forbid we blame those responsible, just as it was easy for people to blame everything under the sun for the war last year, instead of Saddam who had plenty of time to demonstrate compliance with UN resolutions.

But I digress....your protest was larger than mine. You win.
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Old 03-18-2004, 11:24 PM   #42
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Spain's presence in Iraq, lest we forget, was largely symbolic. The U.S. runs the show, and the "coalition of the willing" was merely window dressing to not make it look like their invasion of Iraq was all their own idea.

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Old 03-18-2004, 11:58 PM   #43
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"Spain's presence in Iraq, lest we forget, was largely symbolic. The U.S. runs the show, and the "coalition of the willing" was merely window dressing to not make it look like their invasion of Iraq was all their own idea."

The same charge Democrats often made during the first Gulf War back in 1991. In fact, this is a charge many liberals would make of all US foreign policy since World War II.
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Old 03-19-2004, 02:18 PM   #44
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(This is a reply to something Dread posted in another thread but which is actually relevant to this thread so I'm posting it in here to avoid side-tracking the other thread.)

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I find it REDICULOUS, that when I post an article and link to the article directly that you want to know more than that. I did not quote from ANYTHING other than the article.
For clarification: you posted an English translation of a few paragraphs of an article, accompanied by a link to the original article in French -- the link clearly couldn't be to the website you'd found the quotes on as it was in a different language and by your own admission you couldn't translate the article. I asked you where the translation came from as having read the French article, I was curious as to why someone had chosen to translate only selected paragraphs from the original.

It's not some big conspiracy -- I was just curious about the intentions of the person who translated the paragrahs. Intellectual curiosity -- it's what FYM is all about.
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Old 03-19-2004, 02:24 PM   #45
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Thank you again, for responding to my requests for a PM on this. it is now in two threads...

I told you in this thread how to find it, that it was linked to by many blogs and I had been searching to try and find the real article. Somehow, this did not satisfy you, and you decided to bring it up in another thread.

If you Type in ANDREW SULLIVAN as I said EARLIER in this thread in a google search, you will find the translation that the BLOG I ran across used. I already told you this. Since it was not the actual article, I went and translated it myself, I guess rather poorly.

Somehow this is A BIG enough issue that you found it acceptable to throw a cheap shot in at the other thread.
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