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Old 03-15-2004, 06:00 PM   #16
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So you won't say where the first two quotes (the ones with a comparatively decent translation) come from?

Like I said, I'm only curious because the two paragraphs aren't really representative of the whole article and I'd be curious to know what point the person who translated them was attempting to make.

Oh well.

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Old 03-15-2004, 06:02 PM   #17
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If you have translated it, I would like to see it.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:06 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
If you have translated it, I would like to see it.
And just as I hate seeing left wing propaganda posted in here, I would prefer not posting right wing. That is why I went, and attempted to go right to the article itself.

As you can see, I have said I would love a decent translation.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:08 PM   #19
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Should I take that as a "no" to my request?

I didn't translate it into English, I just read the article.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:15 PM   #20
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The main page that everyone links to is Andrew Sullivan...although I do not think that is where I read it.

it took quite a bit of searching to get to the actual article.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:17 PM   #21
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For the record....I said any thoughts in my post mostly because I do not speak French. I really hoped that someone could translate it and possibly ad some insite.

To me it was too much of a turn around.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:18 PM   #22
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Sorry, the link isn't working, I tried twice and I get this message:

Quote:
There seems to have been a slight problem with the U2 Feedback database.
Please try again by pressing the refresh button in your browser.

An E-Mail has been dispatched to our Technical Staff, who you can also contact if the problem persists.

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Could you just link to the site instead of to a google search?
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:20 PM   #23
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hey my wife just informed me that google translates.

Here it is....

[Q]ANALYZE
September 11 of Europe
THE WORLD|12.03.04| 14h10
The horror of the attacks of Madrid and uncertainty on the identity of their authors cause two reflexions: the assumption of the responsibility for the Basque separatists is terrible; it wants to say that the Spanish company can generate terrorists who do not hesitate to kill out of the hundreds of people. Assumption Al-Qaida is distressing; it means that Europe is, it also, a target of the "hyperterrorism" .

In both cases, the short-term effects are the same ones: compassion, solidarity with the Spaniards, reinforcement of controls, co-operation between the administrations of police force and justice. In the longer term, the political consequences are different. If the ETA is responsible, the next Spanish government will have to proceed to an inventory without kindness of the policy followed under the direction of José Maria Aznar, within the framework of the Spanish State.

If track Al-Qaida is confirmed, Europeans will have to reconsider the fight against the terrorism of the fundamentalist islamists, as the United States did it after the attacks of September 11, 2001.

SPANISH SPECIFICITY

Spain is not the only country of Western Europe to know an endogenous terrorism, even if the ETA, which says to fight for the independence of the Basque Country, would challenge this qualifier. In the years 1970, the Federal Republic of Germany and Italy, France to a lesser extent, had to make groups violent ones, more or less many, often claiming extreme left and using terrorism to support ideological positions ultraminoritaires.

Police repression put an end to these intrigues. In the German case, the members of the Red Army Fraction, more known under the name of "band with Baader", have, after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the disappearance of GDR, lost if not a base postpones at least a refuge. In Italy, the red Brigades were decimated but a new generation of terrorists appeared these last years. It attacked the advisers on social matters of the governments of left center like right center, considered as "political" targets.

With its mixture of ideology borrowed from the Marxism, religious references, separatist claims, the ETA is not comparable with these groupuscules, although a drift towards the pure and simple banditism their is often common.

The parallel was sometimes established with WILL GO, the Irish Republican army, which fought during decades against "the British occupant" in Northern Ireland. There too, of the "national" objectives were concerned, with the reunification of the island, divided since the independence of the Irish Republic in 1921.

There is however a fundamental between the situations Basque and Irish difference. Since the fall of Francoism, the Basques have the right to choose their destiny democratically and are controlled by a nationalist party that only the ideological blindness or the bad faith can make pass for "collaborationist" compared to the Spanish central State, like was the mode of Vichy with respect to the Nazi Germany (the comparison is often made by the separatists).

In Northern Ireland, the government of Tony Blair understood that the solution of the conflict passed by the division of the capacity between the British majority and Anglican and the republican and catholic minority, which was held a long time far away from the capacity. By the agreement known as of the Good Friday of 1998, it obtained that demounting WILL SUIT it the weapons in exchange of a participation of its political branch in the government of the province.

Was a similar exit possible for the Basque Country? The Spanish authorities, the Socialist Felipe Gonzalez at one time like José Maria Aznar, often reproached those which pushed them in this way not to understand that there A was not, with the ETA, possible compromise, that more or less negotiated "trêves" was dedicated to the failure since no political arrangement was conceivable.

By preaching an all-out war against terrorism, while adhering without reserve to the American policy after September 11, the president of the Spanish government carried out the conceptual amalgam between internal terrorism and international terrorism.

WAR COUNTERS TERRORISM

In does it pay the price today, if Al-Qaida is at the origin of the attacks of Madrid? Is Spain "punished" for its participation in the Anglo-American intervention in Iraq? To stick to this explanation would be an analysis at short sight. Undoubtedly there are political or operational reasons which could make of Spain a privileged target. But the attacks of March 11 must undoubtedly be regarded as a demonstration of what François Heisbourg, director of the Foundation for strategic research, called, the shortly after September 11, 2001, "hyperterrorism".

A conjunction between "the destruction of mass and the apocalyptic nature of the organizers of the attacks" which have other objectives only to cause possible number the highest of victims and other motivations that the hostility in the Western world and the values that it conveys.

If it is thus, force is to note that the war against terrorism carried out under the crook of the United States since the autumn 2001, the intervention in Afghanistan to destroy the mode of the talibans and to track Oussama Ben Laden like the invasion of Iraq, did not disarm the fanatics. Did they enlarge their rows? In the short run it is not impossible. By giving a kick in the Eastern anthill means, the Bush administration destabilized the area without being able to propose, in the immediate future, a new principle of organization.

11 will the Mars have in Europe the same effect as on September 11 in the United States? After having expressed their spontaneous solidarity, the Europeans, scalded by other forms of terrorism, had found that the Americans were watched for by paranoia. Contrary to the latter in 2001, they do not discover their vulnerability only today, but they are confronted with a new phenomenon which is the horror of the terrorism of mass. Like the Americans, they can be brought to admit that the new shape of world war is declared, not against Islam but against a totalitarian fundamentalism and violent one. That the democracies are confronted with the same threat and must react together, by using average soldiers and by carrying out the war of the ideals at the same time.

This policy is outlined in the "strategic concept" adoptee by the twenty-five European Convention countries at the last end of the year. However Europeans, because they were divided on the analysis of international terrorism and the manner of fighting it, expressed themselves in this text with much prudence. Without calling into question the broad outline of this strategy, Europe must harden the implementation of it because it cannot from now on be regarded any more as being apart from the battle field.

Moreover the project of constitution of Convention contains a clause of solidarity with any Member State victim of a terrorist attack. The moment unfortunately had pre-empted the adoption of the constitution and had just shown that all Europe felt struck in Madrid.

Daniel Vernet [/Q]
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Sorry, the link isn't working, I tried twice and I get this message:



Could you just link to the site instead of to a google search?
I do not remember where I ran across it Fizz....Honestly, it can be found on about ten to the right blogs.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:25 PM   #25
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Okay, nevermind. I'm glad you were able to find a translation through Google, I hope it answers some of your questions about the editorial.

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Old 03-16-2004, 06:01 PM   #26
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:05 PM   #27
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It's amazing the level some people stoop to when they dislike the outcome of a democratic election.
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:23 PM   #28
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Here we go again. Last year France-bashing was "fashionable"; this year it's going to be Spain-bashing. Damn.
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:38 PM   #29
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Indeed. "Freedom rice" anyone?
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:47 PM   #30
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I am not bashing Spain. I am tremendously disappointed as someone who believes in the democratic process, that people would be so naive to think that this bombing was NOT strateically done to influence this election. It worked this time, anyone know where the next election is in a country that supported the war on terror?

it is so easy to ignore the issue, that Osama has potentially caused someone to become elected and turn this into the "Freedom Fry" argument.

No no one is stooping to anything here.....But we can resort to that instead of talking about the issues.

I would be this upset if I felt the election were swayed in another direction. If the socialists were ahead and the opposite happened I would be equally worried. It is dangerous terrirtory.
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