Humbled by Grace - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-24-2006, 07:00 AM   #1
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: LA, California, USA
Posts: 1,349
Local Time: 06:15 AM
Humbled by Grace

This is my little rant I wrote after discovering recently (tonight actually) that a dear friend has betrayed me.

I think this very easily could end up as my most seemingly christian post ever.....
We're told from the very beginning in church how we're sinners, good-for-nothings-without God; and this is a unfortunate. The moment you look at a newly-born you realize they do not have a sinful nature.
Sadly, however, our environment nurtures a little Judas in us all. The conservative Christians - moral majoritites - are right in believing our world is corrupt and tainted with evil. Society teaches us that greed is an honorable trait; humility is weakness; blessed are the powerful. Being creatures so readably influenced we accept societal morality; and thus, we allow darkness into our lives.
Many in the Christian communities, I've been involved with, feel a feeling that borderlines on hate in regards to Judas. We all hate in others what we dislike about ourselves. Judas provides us all with an uncomfortable reminder how we cave in to pressure and betray love. We try to cash love in for cheap pleasure; money; sex; drugs; and we end up crying ourselves to sleep (some even everlasting sleep) hanging off a tree of incomprehensible guilt.
Without the nearly irresistible force of love, I think this is where the story would end for most of us. When we feel so guilty, we are left disabled - unable to better ourselves and the situation. That's why Paul writes that grace alone cannot save us. Efforts to remedy a situation or conflict or pointless because we are left battered with guilt. Guilt handicaps.
Overwhelmed by the ferocity of grace, we can overcome the paralyzing guilt that haunts all of us Judas's.
Grace comes in and tells us to look at ourselves wholistically. Are we wholly bad? No, even the worst of individuals have redeeming qualities. Are we wholly good? Of course not. Grace refuses to allow us to wallow in self pity. She says, "I love you. Get up. Love yourself. Forgive yourself and grow. You can grow. You need not remain here in the field of death and despair."
Grace allows all parties to heal.
__________________

__________________
blueyedpoet is offline  
Old 10-24-2006, 08:42 AM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,994
Local Time: 01:15 AM
That's lovely, I'm sorry your friend betrayed you. So many people have told me to read that book "What's So Amazing About Grace"-have you read it?
__________________

__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 10-24-2006, 03:08 PM   #3
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
That's why Paul writes that grace alone cannot save us.
Where did Paul write that?
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 10-24-2006, 10:40 PM   #4
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: LA, California, USA
Posts: 1,349
Local Time: 06:15 AM
Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Where did Paul write that?
I wrote the opposite of what I meant...oops


Yeah, the first half of What's So Amazing about Grace? is good, but the second half is a real let down.
__________________
blueyedpoet is offline  
Old 10-24-2006, 11:15 PM   #5
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet


I wrote the opposite of what I meant...oops
I figured that's what it was, because Paul definitely didn't believe that anything saves besides Grace.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 10-24-2006, 11:36 PM   #6
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet


Yeah, the first half of What's So Amazing about Grace? is good, but the second half is a real let down.
I read it as well. Excellent book. What about the second half was disappointing to you? It's been a few years and I'm trying to remember what was the change in ten in the second half of the book.
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 10-24-2006, 11:39 PM   #7
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
redhotswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Waiting for this madness to end.
Posts: 5,846
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
I figured that's what it was, because Paul definitely didn't believe that anything saves besides Grace.
Now, James, on the otherhand, says something different.
__________________
redhotswami is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 12:46 AM   #8
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: LA, California, USA
Posts: 1,349
Local Time: 06:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami


Now, James, on the otherhand, says something different.
The sad thing is I don't think either of them really understood the power and beauty of grace. Both of their writings are full of self-loathing.
__________________
blueyedpoet is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 12:52 AM   #9
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami


Now, James, on the otherhand, says something different.
I don't believe he does. I believe he's saying that true faith produces works, not that works can save.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 12:55 AM   #10
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet


The sad thing is I don't think either of them really understood the power and beauty of grace. Both of their writings are full of self-loathing.
I don't see it that way at all. Paul loathes the sin nature he had before he became a Christian, but all his writings celebrate the new nature that he has in Christ, especially Romans 6 - 8.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 02:17 AM   #11
Refugee
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: LA, California, USA
Posts: 1,349
Local Time: 06:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I don't see it that way at all. Paul loathes the sin nature he had before he became a Christian, but all his writings celebrate the new nature that he has in Christ, especially Romans 6 - 8.
What about him wondering, "why do i do the things I don't want to do? and why don't I do what I want to do?"
__________________
blueyedpoet is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 07:22 AM   #12
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
maycocksean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Most Important State in the Union
Posts: 4,882
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet


What about him wondering, "why do i do the things I don't want to do? and why don't I do what I want to do?"
I don't know that that qualifies as self-loathing though. Isn't that a pretty normal human frustration. . .that we let ourselves down sometimes. We don't do the right we know we should. We do the wrong we know we shouldn't?

Should we always congratulate ourselves on everything we do or else become a victim of self-hatred?
__________________
maycocksean is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:13 AM   #13
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet


What about him wondering, "why do i do the things I don't want to do? and why don't I do what I want to do?"
Romans 6 to 8 is all about the transformation of Paul: who he was before Christ, and what God did to break the power of death and sin in his life.

Read verses 24 and 25 of 7, and the first several verse of 8:

7
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 12:25 PM   #14
War Child
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Ontario,Canada
Posts: 911
Local Time: 01:15 AM
Hi Blueyedpoet

I'm also sorry that your friend betrayed you. And I hope that your experience of God’s grace will help you through this difficult time.

P.S. I noticed that you have one section using the words “disabled, handicaps, paralyzing.” These words have been and can still be commonplace. For example, we frequently hear newscasters announcing “the economy has been crippled by (blank) crisis.” I’m just thinking of to those who happen to live with a significant functional difference i.e., people who use a wheelchair. Other words could be used instead such as:

“Without the nearly irresistible force of love, I think this is where the story would end for most of us. When we feel so guilty, we are left disabled - unable to better ourselves and the situation. That's why Paul writes that grace alone cannot save us. Efforts to remedy a situation or conflict or pointless because we are left battered with guilt. Guilt handicaps. Overwhelmed by the ferocity of grace, we can overcome the paralyzing guilt that haunts all of us Judas's.”

Without the nearly irresistible force of love, I think this is where the story would end for most of us. When we feel so guilty, we are left immobilized - unable to better ourselves and the situation. That's why Paul writes that grace alone cannot save us. Efforts to remedy a situation or conflict or pointless because we are left battered with guilt. Guilt traps us. Overwhelmed by the ferocity of grace, we can overcome the devastating guilt that haunts all of us Judas's.
__________________
U2Soar is offline  
Old 10-27-2006, 01:33 AM   #15
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 11:15 PM
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Humbled by Grace

Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Romans 6 to 8 is all about the transformation of Paul: who he was before Christ, and what God did to break the power of death and sin in his life.

Read verses 24 and 25 of 7, and the first several verse of 8:

7
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
80's - you demonstrate great understanding of Romans (possibly my favorite book in the Bible).

Have you read any Watchman Nee?
__________________

__________________
AEON is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com