Humbled by Grace

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blueyedpoet

Refugee
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Aug 23, 2000
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This is my little rant I wrote after discovering recently (tonight actually) that a dear friend has betrayed me.

I think this very easily could end up as my most seemingly christian post ever.....
We're told from the very beginning in church how we're sinners, good-for-nothings-without God; and this is a unfortunate. The moment you look at a newly-born you realize they do not have a sinful nature.
Sadly, however, our environment nurtures a little Judas in us all. The conservative Christians - moral majoritites - are right in believing our world is corrupt and tainted with evil. Society teaches us that greed is an honorable trait; humility is weakness; blessed are the powerful. Being creatures so readably influenced we accept societal morality; and thus, we allow darkness into our lives.
Many in the Christian communities, I've been involved with, feel a feeling that borderlines on hate in regards to Judas. We all hate in others what we dislike about ourselves. Judas provides us all with an uncomfortable reminder how we cave in to pressure and betray love. We try to cash love in for cheap pleasure; money; sex; drugs; and we end up crying ourselves to sleep (some even everlasting sleep) hanging off a tree of incomprehensible guilt.
Without the nearly irresistible force of love, I think this is where the story would end for most of us. When we feel so guilty, we are left disabled - unable to better ourselves and the situation. That's why Paul writes that grace alone cannot save us. Efforts to remedy a situation or conflict or pointless because we are left battered with guilt. Guilt handicaps.
Overwhelmed by the ferocity of grace, we can overcome the paralyzing guilt that haunts all of us Judas's.
Grace comes in and tells us to look at ourselves wholistically. Are we wholly bad? No, even the worst of individuals have redeeming qualities. Are we wholly good? Of course not. Grace refuses to allow us to wallow in self pity. She says, "I love you. Get up. Love yourself. Forgive yourself and grow. You can grow. You need not remain here in the field of death and despair."
Grace allows all parties to heal.
 
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blueyedpoet said:


I wrote the opposite of what I meant...oops

I figured that's what it was, because Paul definitely didn't believe that anything saves besides Grace.
 
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blueyedpoet said:


Yeah, the first half of What's So Amazing about Grace? is good, but the second half is a real let down.

I read it as well. Excellent book. What about the second half was disappointing to you? It's been a few years and I'm trying to remember what was the change in ten in the second half of the book.
 
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redhotswami said:


Now, James, on the otherhand, says something different.

The sad thing is I don't think either of them really understood the power and beauty of grace. Both of their writings are full of self-loathing.
 
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redhotswami said:


Now, James, on the otherhand, says something different.

I don't believe he does. I believe he's saying that true faith produces works, not that works can save.
 
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blueyedpoet said:


The sad thing is I don't think either of them really understood the power and beauty of grace. Both of their writings are full of self-loathing.

I don't see it that way at all. Paul loathes the sin nature he had before he became a Christian, but all his writings celebrate the new nature that he has in Christ, especially Romans 6 - 8.
 
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80sU2isBest said:


I don't see it that way at all. Paul loathes the sin nature he had before he became a Christian, but all his writings celebrate the new nature that he has in Christ, especially Romans 6 - 8.

What about him wondering, "why do i do the things I don't want to do? and why don't I do what I want to do?"
 
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blueyedpoet said:


What about him wondering, "why do i do the things I don't want to do? and why don't I do what I want to do?"

I don't know that that qualifies as self-loathing though. Isn't that a pretty normal human frustration. . .that we let ourselves down sometimes. We don't do the right we know we should. We do the wrong we know we shouldn't?

Should we always congratulate ourselves on everything we do or else become a victim of self-hatred?
 
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blueyedpoet said:


What about him wondering, "why do i do the things I don't want to do? and why don't I do what I want to do?"

Romans 6 to 8 is all about the transformation of Paul: who he was before Christ, and what God did to break the power of death and sin in his life.

Read verses 24 and 25 of 7, and the first several verse of 8:

7
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
 
Hi Blueyedpoet

I'm also sorry that your friend betrayed you. And I hope that your experience of God’s grace will help you through this difficult time.

P.S. I noticed that you have one section using the words “disabled, handicaps, paralyzing.” These words have been and can still be commonplace. For example, we frequently hear newscasters announcing “the economy has been crippled by (blank) crisis.” I’m just thinking of to those who happen to live with a significant functional difference i.e., people who use a wheelchair. Other words could be used instead such as:

“Without the nearly irresistible force of love, I think this is where the story would end for most of us. When we feel so guilty, we are left disabled - unable to better ourselves and the situation. That's why Paul writes that grace alone cannot save us. Efforts to remedy a situation or conflict or pointless because we are left battered with guilt. Guilt handicaps. Overwhelmed by the ferocity of grace, we can overcome the paralyzing guilt that haunts all of us Judas's.”

Without the nearly irresistible force of love, I think this is where the story would end for most of us. When we feel so guilty, we are left immobilized - unable to better ourselves and the situation. That's why Paul writes that grace alone cannot save us. Efforts to remedy a situation or conflict or pointless because we are left battered with guilt. Guilt traps us. Overwhelmed by the ferocity of grace, we can overcome the devastating guilt that haunts all of us Judas's.
 
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80sU2isBest said:


Romans 6 to 8 is all about the transformation of Paul: who he was before Christ, and what God did to break the power of death and sin in his life.

Read verses 24 and 25 of 7, and the first several verse of 8:

7
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

80's - you demonstrate great understanding of Romans (possibly my favorite book in the Bible).

Have you read any Watchman Nee?
 
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AEON said:


80's - you demonstrate great understanding of Romans (possibly my favorite book in the Bible).

Have you read any Watchman Nee?

Thanks a lot. I love Romans - it is my favorite book in the Bible. I used to understand Romans 6 and 7 much differently than I do now. But when you consider all the other things Paul says about who we are in Christ, this fits in perfectly.

I haven't read much Watchman Nee, but I know what he believed about who we are Christ (and who we are no longer) and I am in total agreement with him.

Have you read "Lifetime Guarantee" by Bill Gillham? Same great teachings.
 
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80sU2isBest said:


Have you read "Lifetime Guarantee" by Bill Gillham? Same great teachings.

I'll have to check it out.

I love studying the whole concept of "identity.” Paul is very adamant that we, as Christians, are to have our identity in Christ. It is not about our social position, our popularity in the world, or our respect within the world. It is simply about who we are in Christ. What a beautiful concept.

On one hand, we are automatically humbled because we can claim nothing for ourselves, no matter how great or beautiful our works may be. But on the other hand, we are tremendously empowered by knowing that we are in Christ: heir to all He is heir to, with access to the same Spirit that rose Him from the dead and defeated the consequences of sin, and that we have eternal identity that is perfect, clean, and holy.
 
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AEON said:


I'll have to check it out.

I love studying the whole concept of "identity.” Paul is very adamant that we, as Christians, are to have our identity in Christ. It is not about our social position, our popularity in the world, or our respect within the world. It is simply about who we are in Christ. What a beautiful concept.

On one hand, we are automatically humbled because we can claim nothing for ourselves, no matter how great or beautiful our works may be. But on the other hand, we are tremendously empowered by knowing that we are in Christ: heir to all He is heir to, with access to the same Spirit that rose Him from the dead and defeated the consequences of sin, and that we have eternal identity that is perfect, clean, and holy.

Amen, you are exactly right, and that is one of the most key concepts, and unfortunately is so often ignored or even lied about by many churches.
 
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80sU2isBest said:


Amen, you are exactly right, and that is one of the most key concepts, and unfortunately is so often ignored or even lied about by many churches.

Sad but true. God placed me under a great teacher of the Word. He "got it." Every point in his theology has such a strong Scriptural basis. It’s very comforting to be around such a Spirit filled, wise Christian.

Whenever I get frustrated with someone or with someone's viewpoint, he always reminds me that is almost always a problem with identity. Then, when I look at this person, I see that the real reason they are holding onto something so strongly is because their identity is so wrapped up into (insert any image).
I also must guard against my own natural desires to have any identity outside of Christ.
 
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