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Old 08-11-2003, 02:03 PM   #1
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Human Shield FINED $10, 000

[Q]U.S. Fines Woman for Being 'Human Shield'

The Associated Press
Monday, August 11, 2003; 9:42 AM


SARASOTA, Fla. - A retired schoolteacher who went to Iraq to serve as a "human shield" against the U.S. invasion is facing thousands of dollars in U.S. government fines, which she is refusing to pay.

The U.S. Department of the Treasury said in a March letter to Faith Fippinger that she broke the law by crossing the Iraqi border before the war. Her travel to Iraq violated U.S. sanctions that prohibited American citizens from engaging in "virtually all direct or indirect commercial, financial or trade transactions with Iraq."

She and others from 30 countries spread out through Iraq to prevent the war. She spent about three months there. Only about 20 of nearly 300 "human shields" were Americans, she said.

Fippinger, who returned home May 4, is being fined at least $10,000, but she has refused to pay. She could face up to 12 years in prison. [/Q]


I do not think she should be fined. She is not a corporation that was in a monetary relationship with Iraq. She was trying to protect lives.
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Old 08-11-2003, 02:51 PM   #2
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She may be able to overturn this on free speech grounds.
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:06 PM   #3
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You break the law, you get in trouble.
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:11 PM   #4
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I agree with you, Dread. She wasn't seeking to gain anything from her relationship with Iraq, she simply wanted to help and defend the Iraqi people. I don't see how acting as a human shield can be construed as a "commercial, financial or trade transaction."
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfwill23
You break the law, you get in trouble.
I don't think it's clear she broke a law.
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:24 PM   #6
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But, something else to think about. If she *had* been killed while over there, don't think for a second that her family wouldn't want some sort of restitution from our government. And of course, her being an American would mean that if she got kidnapped or imprissioned over there, our goverment, or rather our soldiers, would be there ones expected to sacrifice *their* lives to go save her.

Sorry, I think it's great that she is being fined. People like that don't think at all that they are putting our soldiers in harms way to protect them.
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:28 PM   #7
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Why do you presume that you know everything about this woman's motives for going to Iraq and her expectations of the US government?

And what evidence do you have that human shields endangered any US soldiers?
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:34 PM   #8
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Wasn't there at least one human shield that was killed?
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:44 PM   #9
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I said *if*. I have no evidence that she endangered any of our soldiers. But she was in Iraq as we were invading it and she was putting herself potentially in harms way and the possibility that she *could* have been injured or harmed in some way is there. And *if* she was injured or harmed, my *guess* is that her family would want our goverment to do what they could to get her out of there. These are all guesses of mine (since I don't know her or her family), but these are the reasons our government gives when they ask Americans to get our of volitile countries. They don't want Americans in there that they have to worry about.
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Old 08-11-2003, 05:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Lynne
But, something else to think about. If she *had* been killed while over there, don't think for a second that her family wouldn't want some sort of restitution from our government.
What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

You can't debate hypotheticals like that. Who cares what her family may or may not have done? Since it didn't happen, it doesn't pertain to this situation in any tangible way. Had they said a priori that they'd sue in case of death, it might be a point for discussion. As things stand, it's basically a lot of nothing.
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Old 08-11-2003, 05:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Lynne
these are the reasons our government gives when they ask Americans to get our of volitile countries. They don't want Americans in there that they have to worry about.
Actually if you read the original post you'll see that the US forbade its citizens from "virtually all direct or indirect commercial, financial or trade transactions with Iraq." Nowhere does it state that this has anything to do with the safety of US citizens but rather it has to do with the US sanctions against Iraq.

In any case, anitram is right - you're talking about a hypothetical situation, it doesn't have any relevance to the actual facts of this situation.
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Old 08-11-2003, 06:14 PM   #12
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While on the one hand I think there is something wrong with the charges, on the other, couldn't she be charged with treason?

The United States Congress under President Clinton voted and approved actions to remove Saddam from power.

The United States Congress under President Bush voted to use force.

It is kind of a no brainer when you have the Congress voting.

Throw her in jail for treason. Don't fine her. If you are willing to make the sacrafice to go over theree you should also be willing to pay the price.

How is that for an about face.

LOL
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Old 08-11-2003, 06:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
While on the one hand I think there is something wrong with the charges, on the other, couldn't she be charged with treason?

The United States Congress under President Clinton voted and approved actions to remove Saddam from power.

The United States Congress under President Bush voted to use force.

It is kind of a no brainer when you have the Congress voting.

Throw her in jail for treason. Don't fine her. If you are willing to make the sacrafice to go over theree you should also be willing to pay the price.

How is that for an about face.

LOL
I think if this administration had the means to charge her with treason they would like nothing better than to do that.
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Old 08-11-2003, 09:22 PM   #14
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I may be playing with fire here but since when is not agreeing with what your (American) government is doing considered treason?
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Old 08-11-2003, 09:28 PM   #15
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Originally posted by U2luv
I may be playing with fire here but since when is not agreeing with what your (American) government is doing considered treason?
I would never accuse someone who does not agree of treason.

I would however accuse someone, who put themselves in Iraq to help Saddamn, when the United States Governement has gone to war with their country.

There is a difference between excercizing your right to protest and free speech and taking actions during a war. I guess Benedict Arnold was just disagreeing though.
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