Human-animal Hybrids!!!

[Irvine511]

catching up on what i didn't watch last night, i stumbled across this important part of the POTUS's SOTU speech last night:

[q]Tonight I ask you to pass legislation to prohibit the most egregious abuses of medical research: human cloning in all its forms; creating or implanting embryos for experiments; creating human-animal hybrids[/q]



HUMAN-ANIMAL HYBRIDS!?!?!?!

thank goodness our president is onto this already. i've been fearing the North Korean creation of human-ape-mole hybrids, intended to create an army of docile, yet fearsome and strong, and perhaps orc-like, warriors that will invade South Korea at a moment's notice. i'm also concerned about the possible future existence of minotaurs, and what this might mean for our nation's children. how confusing it would be to get away from traditional notions of humahood -- are you a man or are you a horse? will we soon see books titled, "Heather has a Mommy and a Minotaur, that's why she beats the rest of us in track"?

i am so glad we have such an astute president who is able to forsee potential problems that have not happened yet. as we know, the problem with guns that are hidden is you can't see their smoke.

think about it.

 

[YBORCITY]

^

You must admit - wether liking him or not - he's on top of ALL the pertinant issues.

 

[nbcrusader]

catching up on what i didn't watch last night, i stumbled across this important part of the POTUS's SOTU speech last night:

[q]Tonight I ask you to pass legislation to prohibit the most egregious abuses of medical research: human cloning in all its forms; creating or implanting embryos for experiments; creating human-animal hybrids[/q]



HUMAN-ANIMAL HYBRIDS!?!?!?!

thank goodness our president is onto this already. i've been fearing the North Korean creation of human-ape-mole hybrids, intended to create an army of docile, yet fearsome and strong, and perhaps orc-like, warriors that will invade South Korea at a moment's notice. i'm also concerned about the possible future existence of minotaurs, and what this might mean for our nation's children. how confusing it would be to get away from traditional notions of humahood -- are you a man or are you a horse? will we soon see books titled, "Heather has a Mommy and a Minotaur, that's why she beats the rest of us in track"?

i am so glad we have such an astute president who is able to forsee potential problems that have not happened yet. as we know, the problem with guns that are hidden is you can't see their smoke.

think about it.

Would you prefer this be addressed now, or after the experimentation has occurred?

I clerked for a law professor who's area of expertice was medical ethics. The issues lightly touched on during the speech have been discussed for decades. It is not a phantom concern.

 

[randhail]

He was going to talk about the rise of people with mutant powers, but he realized he wouldn't have anything to talk about next year.

 

[Irvine511]

Re: Re: Human-animal Hybrids!!!

Would you prefer this be addressed now, or after the experimentation has occurred?

I clerked for a law professor who's area of expertice was medical ethics. The issues lightly touched on during the speech have been discussed for decades. It is not a phantom concern.

we're going to need something to battle the evil human-ape-mole hybrids from North Korea, so i say it should be legal.

 

[deep]

What is this really about?


We have people recieveing heart valves from pigs now.

There is probably other cross species medicine.


Is this about creating some type of organ transplants to save lives?

I can go back and dig up newspaper articles about the opposition to human heart transplants,
as being barbaric and against all human decency in the beginning.

Is it about Dr Moreau
or something else?

 

[yolland]

we're going to need something to battle the evil human-ape-mole hybrids.

Not that this contributes anything to the discussion, but this reminds me of a strange misperception I had as a small child about the civil war then going on in Lebanon and the strikes made on Israel from across the border by PLO guerillas, which were a not infrequent source of discussion between my parents. I kept hearing all this talk of "gorilla bases" and being a Planet of the Apes fan, I naturally imagined that that must more or less be what these sinister "gorillas" I kept hearing about were like. I used to pray at night for all those poor Lebanese civilians and journalists who were living through the indignity of being held hostage by gorillas, hoping they could be brave like Charlton Heston and maybe even snarl back, "Get your hands off me you damned dirty apes!"

Another reason why trying to explain complex conflict situations to children under the age of 10 or so is probably a lost cause...

 

[Justin24]

I guess he really wants to see X-men in real life. Or Island of Dr. Manreau. Or he is Following Stalins example.

 

[Irvine511]

Not that this contributes anything to the discussion, but this reminds me of a strange misperception I had as a small child about the civil war then going on in Lebanon and the strikes made on Israel from across the border by PLO guerillas, which were a not infrequent source of discussion between my parents. I kept hearing all this talk of "gorilla bases" and being a Planet of the Apes fan, I naturally imagined that that must more or less be what these sinister "gorillas" I kept hearing about were like. I used to pray at night for all those poor Lebanese civilians and journalists who were living through the indignity of being held hostage by gorillas, hoping they could be brave like Charlton Heston and maybe even snarl back, "Get your hands off me you damned dirty apes!"

Another reason why trying to explain complex conflict situations to children under the age of 10 or so is probably a lost cause...

OMG! i totally understand -- i had the *exact* same thoughts, except it involved Nicaragua and El Salvador, i being a child of the 80s.

i also remember being really confused about "illegal aliens" -- as a dedicated "Unsolved Mysteries" watcher, i got really upset because i had somehow missed the big discovery that not only did aliens exist, but they wanted to immigrate here.

 

[Justin24]

OMG! i totally understand -- i had the *exact* same thoughts, except it involved Nicaragua and El Salvador, i being a child of the 80s.

i also remember being really confused about "illegal aliens" -- as a dedicated "Unsolved Mysteries" watcher, i got really upset because i had somehow missed the big discovery that not only did aliens exist, but they wanted to immigrate here.

LOL Sorry funny

 

[anitram]

Hahahahahaha!



We can barely grow our own stem cells in the lab without contaminating and killing most of them and he's talking about this nonsense.

 

[deep]

yeah,

We have a

legal alien

hybrid

as Governor of Kaleefoornia

 

[A_Wanderer]

Future research into xenotransplantation perhaps

 

[Kristie]

I hate to say it, but Bush didn't make this one up.

From National Geographic:
Animal-Human Hybrids Spark Controversy

Scientists have begun blurring the line between human and animal by producing chimeras—a hybrid creature that's part human, part animal.

Chinese scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created. They were allowed to develop for several days in a laboratory dish before the scientists destroyed the embryos to harvest their stem cells.

In Minnesota last year researchers at the Mayo Clinic created pigs with human blood flowing through their bodies.

And at Stanford University in California an experiment might be done later this year to create mice with human brains.

 

[Liesje]

OK, I know next to nothing about this stuff, so someone like anitram will probably have to clean up what I'm trying to say, but I know that in Iowa they clone cows with some human DNA, or something from humans. Then the cows' milk contains something we need, like antigens? Then they save it all incase of nuclear holocaust. It sounds like the plot for a bad conspiracy theory movie, but it's true. I guess it's not really controversial since it's not like human parts are involved.

 

[bayernfc]

We can barely grow our own stem cells in the lab without contaminating and killing most of them and he's talking about this nonsense.

Having worked in a lab in the past two years, I had the exact same reaction. I wonder who are the medical advisors (assuming there are any)?

 

[nbcrusader]

I hate to say it, but Bush didn't make this one up.

From National Geographic:
Animal-Human Hybrids Spark Controversy

Dang! That makes the smug remarks I heard last night on the Daily Show just stupid bitter humor

 

[Irvine511]

Dang! That makes the smug remarks I heard last night on the Daily Show just stupid bitter humor

it was soooooooooo funny, though, wasn't it?

especially the HRC joke.

but then again, as you've noted, there's no room for humor on FYM, is there?

had Bush stated what's actually going on more clearly, rather than "human-animal hybrids" (revealing, again, imho, that he knows next to nothing about the details of what he's talking about) he should have said something along the lines of what the article was pointing out:

[q]In Minnesota last year researchers at the Mayo Clinic created pigs with human blood flowing through their bodies.

And at Stanford University in California an experiment might be done later this year to create mice with human brains.

Scientists feel that, the more humanlike the animal, the better research model it makes for testing drugs or possibly growing "spare parts," such as livers, to transplant into humans.

Watching how human cells mature and interact in a living creature may also lead to the discoveries of new medical treatments.

[/q]

 

[anitram]

Right on, Irvine.

Bush frames this argument in a silly and ridiculous context. ANIMAL-HUMAN hybrids! Oh no! We'll have babies with the heart of a lion and the fur of a Collie! This cannot happen.

Instead of speaking intelligently about this (ha!), Bush intentionally chooses language which will incite a hysterical reaction.

 

[Irvine511]

Instead of speaking intelligently about this (ha!), Bush intentionally chooses language which will incite a hysterical reaction.

and give us the smug humor it justly deserves.

 

[nbcrusader]

Interesting how you failed to quote the part about "scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created."

This seems to be what Bush was targeting.

But, it would ruin your joke.

 

[nbcrusader]

The article also posts the very basic ethical questions that have not been resolved:

But creating human-animal chimeras—named after a monster in Greek mythology that had a lion's head, goat's body, and serpent's tail—has raised troubling questions: What new subhuman combination should be produced and for what purpose? At what point would it be considered human? And what rights, if any, should it have?

Again, these ethical questions have been discussed for decades, yet science continues to test the waters.

 

[Irvine511]

Interesting how you failed to quote the part about "scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created."

This seems to be what Bush was targeting.

But, it would ruin your joke.

but even that would diffuse the HUMAN-ANIMAL HYBRIDS hysteria of the SOTU.

it's all very logical and scientific. do ethical questions arise? of course. they do with all exploratory areas of science.

but cautious and careful ethical inquiry doesn't make for a SCREAMING HEADLINE or a LINE THAT WILL GET THE REPUBLICANS TO LEAP TO THEIR FEET!!!

the Daily Show joke wasn't about the issue, but Bush's framing of the issue.



and besides, the HRC joke got the biggest laughs of the show.

and i nearly fell off my chair.

 

[Irvine511]

Again, these ethical questions have been discussed for decades, yet science continues to test the waters.

it's terrible. i wish scientists would stop improving human life.

 

[nbcrusader]

it's terrible. i wish scientists would stop improving human life.

So everything is ethical as long as you can claim you are trying to improve human life???

 

[Irvine511]

So everything is ethical as long as you can claim you are trying to improve human life???

no. don't leap ahead.

science and ethics should be in a constant dialogue -- i actually know a little bit about medical ethics, and there are very smart people doing very good work and asking profound medical questions, all good, and the worst thing is to make blanket statements and enact sweeping legislation (NO CLONING EVER!) before the science is even at the point where this sort of thing is a tangible issue.

my comment was more focused on your use of the lament-sounding "yet" ...

 

[nbcrusader]

science and ethics should be in a constant dialogue -- i actually know a little bit about medical ethics, and there are very smart people doing very good work and asking profound medical questions, all good, and the worst thing is to make blanket statements and enact sweeping legislation (NO CLONING EVER!) before the science is even at the point where this sort of thing is a tangible issue.

I guess I come from a point where this dialogue was in full swing twenty years ago (far ahead of scientific accomplishment). The thought of a sub-species of humans terrifies many ethicists.

 

[deep]

It is next to impossible to light a candle in the darkness

when first we go to so-called religion to inform our core beliefs

Weissman has already created mice with brains that are about one percent human.

Later this year he may conduct another experiment where the mice have 100 percent human brains. This would be done, he said, by injecting human neurons into the brains of embryonic mice.

Before being born, the mice would be killed and dissected to see if the architecture of a human brain had formed. If it did, he'd look for traces of human cognitive behavior.

Weissman said he's not a mad scientist trying to create a human in an animal body. He hopes the experiment leads to a better understanding of how the brain works, which would be useful in treating diseases like Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease.

I can not imagine the last 10 years of Reagan's life.


But, if this research can lead to the slowing or prevention of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease then get out of the way with these ridiculous arguments.


Most of these same people have no problem keeping suffering and brain wasted people alive. Just don't help them?

 

[Irvine511]

I guess I come from a point where this dialogue was in full swing twenty years ago (far ahead of scientific accomplishment). The thought of a sub-species of humans terrifies many ethicists.

yes, but sub-species aren't even a goal of science. it might be a possibility, in a sci-fi sort of way (like in Alien 4 ... which i can't believe i actually watched), but that further makes the point that Bush's tossing of that into the SOTU (like hydrogen cars, stereoids, and missions to Mars) was little more than red meat for the base, and scientifically far-fetched at best.

hence, worthy of Daily Show fodder.