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Old 02-02-2006, 12:50 AM   #16
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Originally posted by anitram


We can barely grow our own stem cells in the lab without contaminating and killing most of them and he's talking about this nonsense.
Having worked in a lab in the past two years, I had the exact same reaction. I wonder who are the medical advisors (assuming there are any)?
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:07 AM   #17
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Originally posted by Kristie
I hate to say it, but Bush didn't make this one up.

From National Geographic:
Animal-Human Hybrids Spark Controversy

Dang! That makes the smug remarks I heard last night on the Daily Show just stupid bitter humor
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:50 AM   #18
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Dang! That makes the smug remarks I heard last night on the Daily Show just stupid bitter humor



it was soooooooooo funny, though, wasn't it?

especially the HRC joke.

but then again, as you've noted, there's no room for humor on FYM, is there?

had Bush stated what's actually going on more clearly, rather than "human-animal hybrids" (revealing, again, imho, that he knows next to nothing about the details of what he's talking about) he should have said something along the lines of what the article was pointing out:

[q]In Minnesota last year researchers at the Mayo Clinic created pigs with human blood flowing through their bodies.

And at Stanford University in California an experiment might be done later this year to create mice with human brains.

Scientists feel that, the more humanlike the animal, the better research model it makes for testing drugs or possibly growing "spare parts," such as livers, to transplant into humans.

Watching how human cells mature and interact in a living creature may also lead to the discoveries of new medical treatments.

[/q]
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:07 PM   #19
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Right on, Irvine.

Bush frames this argument in a silly and ridiculous context. ANIMAL-HUMAN hybrids! Oh no! We'll have babies with the heart of a lion and the fur of a Collie! This cannot happen.

Instead of speaking intelligently about this (ha!), Bush intentionally chooses language which will incite a hysterical reaction.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:11 PM   #20
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Originally posted by anitram
Instead of speaking intelligently about this (ha!), Bush intentionally chooses language which will incite a hysterical reaction.


and give us the smug humor it justly deserves.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:11 PM   #21
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Interesting how you failed to quote the part about "scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created."

This seems to be what Bush was targeting.

But, it would ruin your joke.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:19 PM   #22
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The article also posts the very basic ethical questions that have not been resolved:

Quote:
But creating human-animal chimeras—named after a monster in Greek mythology that had a lion's head, goat's body, and serpent's tail—has raised troubling questions: What new subhuman combination should be produced and for what purpose? At what point would it be considered human? And what rights, if any, should it have?
Again, these ethical questions have been discussed for decades, yet science continues to test the waters.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:32 PM   #23
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Interesting how you failed to quote the part about "scientists at the Shanghai Second Medical University in 2003 successfully fused human cells with rabbit eggs. The embryos were reportedly the first human-animal chimeras successfully created."

This seems to be what Bush was targeting.

But, it would ruin your joke.


but even that would diffuse the HUMAN-ANIMAL HYBRIDS hysteria of the SOTU.

it's all very logical and scientific. do ethical questions arise? of course. they do with all exploratory areas of science.

but cautious and careful ethical inquiry doesn't make for a SCREAMING HEADLINE or a LINE THAT WILL GET THE REPUBLICANS TO LEAP TO THEIR FEET!!!

the Daily Show joke wasn't about the issue, but Bush's framing of the issue.



and besides, the HRC joke got the biggest laughs of the show.

and i nearly fell off my chair.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:33 PM   #24
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Again, these ethical questions have been discussed for decades, yet science continues to test the waters.


it's terrible. i wish scientists would stop improving human life.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:54 PM   #25
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Originally posted by Irvine511
it's terrible. i wish scientists would stop improving human life.
So everything is ethical as long as you can claim you are trying to improve human life???
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:02 PM   #26
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


So everything is ethical as long as you can claim you are trying to improve human life???


no. don't leap ahead.

science and ethics should be in a constant dialogue -- i actually know a little bit about medical ethics, and there are very smart people doing very good work and asking profound medical questions, all good, and the worst thing is to make blanket statements and enact sweeping legislation (NO CLONING EVER!) before the science is even at the point where this sort of thing is a tangible issue.

my comment was more focused on your use of the lament-sounding "yet" ...
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:10 PM   #27
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Originally posted by Irvine511
science and ethics should be in a constant dialogue -- i actually know a little bit about medical ethics, and there are very smart people doing very good work and asking profound medical questions, all good, and the worst thing is to make blanket statements and enact sweeping legislation (NO CLONING EVER!) before the science is even at the point where this sort of thing is a tangible issue.
I guess I come from a point where this dialogue was in full swing twenty years ago (far ahead of scientific accomplishment). The thought of a sub-species of humans terrifies many ethicists.
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:43 PM   #28
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It is next to impossible to light a candle in the darkness

when first we go to so-called religion to inform our core beliefs



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Weissman has already created mice with brains that are about one percent human.

Later this year he may conduct another experiment where the mice have 100 percent human brains. This would be done, he said, by injecting human neurons into the brains of embryonic mice.

Before being born, the mice would be killed and dissected to see if the architecture of a human brain had formed. If it did, he'd look for traces of human cognitive behavior.

Weissman said he's not a mad scientist trying to create a human in an animal body. He hopes the experiment leads to a better understanding of how the brain works, which would be useful in treating diseases like Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease.


I can not imagine the last 10 years of Reagan's life.


But, if this research can lead to the slowing or prevention of Alzheimer's or Parkinson's disease then get out of the way with these ridiculous arguments.


Most of these same people have no problem keeping suffering and brain wasted people alive. Just don't help them?
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:47 PM   #29
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess I come from a point where this dialogue was in full swing twenty years ago (far ahead of scientific accomplishment). The thought of a sub-species of humans terrifies many ethicists.


yes, but sub-species aren't even a goal of science. it might be a possibility, in a sci-fi sort of way (like in Alien 4 ... which i can't believe i actually watched), but that further makes the point that Bush's tossing of that into the SOTU (like hydrogen cars, stereoids, and missions to Mars) was little more than red meat for the base, and scientifically far-fetched at best.

hence, worthy of Daily Show fodder.
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