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Old 01-25-2005, 03:35 PM   #16
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Okay, no discussion of abortion. I'll discuss Hillary I detest the woman more than I care to say. I do not even want to think of that bitch anywhere near running our country, oh the horror

Gotta say though, if her idea is to teach people about contraceptives, that's rather lame. They're out there, tons of different kinds. You can't force anyone to use them even if they're free. Everyone over 9 these days knows where babies come from, and know what you have to do to stop them from coming. Big duh. This changes nothing.
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Old 01-25-2005, 03:37 PM   #17
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Sounds like you spent a lot of time examing her ideas on this issue.
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Old 01-25-2005, 06:00 PM   #18
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*Many* people don't like Hillary. She's controversial and somewhat divisive. But it's hard to deny that she's got political smarts and appeals to some people.
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Old 01-25-2005, 09:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
Okay, no discussion of abortion. I'll discuss Hillary I detest the woman more than I care to say. I do not even want to think of that bitch anywhere near running our country, oh the horror
A little harsh, I do think even though we may not agree with her "pro-choice" take on the issue, perhaps she is trying to bridge the gap to reduce the number of abortions in the ways she feels that are most effective. Simply promoting sexual purity [SIZE=0.5](although seemingly a relatively new thing coming from the Clinton family)[/SIZE] is what she is trying to accomplish. If we stand for a value for life, we should be happy that she is making an avid effort to bridge the gap between the right and left.

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Gotta say though, if her idea is to teach people about contraceptives, that's rather lame. They're out there, tons of different kinds. You can't force anyone to use them even if they're free. Everyone over 9 these days knows where babies come from, and know what you have to do to stop them from coming. Big duh. This changes nothing.
Still, I'm optimistic that she will send a positive message to both sides, and make a significant accomplishment.
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Old 01-26-2005, 06:41 AM   #20
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Okay, no discussion of abortion. I'll discuss Hillary I detest the woman more than I care to say. I do not even want to think of that bitch anywhere near running our country, oh the horror


that's rather misogynist.
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:25 AM   #21
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If she were a man, I would like her no better- I'd just have used the word asshole instead of bitch
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:29 AM   #22
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Still, I'm optimistic that she will send a positive message to both sides, and make a significant accomplishment.
Well I'm not, because it's not going to stop the people who go without birth control intentionally. Some think it will never happen to them, some are trying to get pregnant to 'trap' a guy and then become a devastated 'victim' who needs an abortion when they find out he's not interested and she doesn't want to raise it alone (before anyone jumps on me for this let me say that sadly I have personally known people like this, they even admit it!) It's also rather insulting to make it look like grown women don't know what to do to prevent pregnancy and they need help, gimme a break! Also, this is nothing new or monumental, pro abortion people have always said they don't like abortions and the key to stopping them is birth control and prevention, so why is this even newsworthy?

So I don't believe what she's doing is going to help anymore than an abstinance program which is also unrealistic. She did this for political reasons only, it's all lip service, it's not going to change anything. If I say anything else I will end up back in a debate and I am not in the mood (and I know no one else wants to hear it either)
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Old 01-26-2005, 11:51 AM   #23
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I love Hillary.

That said, I do hope that if anything comes out of this it is the importance of treating women's health care issues in the most holistic way possible. Especially, for women living in poor urban and rural neighborhoods with little or no access to medical care or health insurance. The latter only reminds of me of Hillary's great universal healthcare plan that was botched by those in power, including her husband.
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Old 01-26-2005, 01:10 PM   #24
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I love Hillary.

That said, I do hope that if anything comes out of this it is the importance of treating women's health care issues in the most holistic way possible. Especially, for women living in poor urban and rural neighborhoods with little or no access to medical care or health insurance. The latter only reminds of me of Hillary's great universal healthcare plan that was botched by those in power, including her husband.
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Old 01-26-2005, 01:26 PM   #25
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Health insurance was one reason why my sister got married. When she got married she got in on her new husband's insurance plan. This situation had been bothering the hell out of my parents, one of their kids not even having health insurance. My sister has had numerous health problems and had to deal with the expense of them. It's not easy.
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Old 01-26-2005, 06:54 PM   #26
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I love how some people hate a person that to my knowledge never hurt them on any issue. Trying to get universal healthcare?

I very much dislike Bush, but it is not on frivilous reasons but his policies.

I really like that there may be way to bring us together on this issue to a point. I want prevention to be the main push of effort. Some think knowledge of contraception and sexual truth to be widepread but that is no longer true in today's schools and I remember the myths I learned before sex ed. I really think the abstinence only programs promote unwanted pregnancy. Afteral there are many statistics that show knowledge is power and promotes a later beginning to ones sexual life.
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Old 01-27-2005, 10:51 AM   #27
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Well I'm not, because it's not going to stop the people who go without birth control intentionally. Some think it will never happen to them, some are trying to get pregnant to 'trap' a guy and then become a devastated 'victim' who needs an abortion when they find out he's not interested and she doesn't want to raise it alone (before anyone jumps on me for this let me say that sadly I have personally known people like this, they even admit it!) It's also rather insulting to make it look like grown women don't know what to do to prevent pregnancy and they need help, gimme a break! Also, this is nothing new or monumental, pro abortion people have always said they don't like abortions and the key to stopping them is birth control and prevention, so why is this even newsworthy?

i'm sorry, but this still sounds mysogynist. it's as if you're saying that women should be punished should they get pregnant. it's all the woman's fault, not the man's fault. and this combined with your description of HRC as a "bitch" ...
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Old 01-27-2005, 11:11 AM   #28
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If more liberal politicians clarify that they believe abortion is a "sad, even tragic choice to many, many women," and work over the issue consistently to prove they aren't playing games, they might gain a little more appreciation from the pro-life community. I don't believe the woman should be punished (not to start the whole abortion debate, this thread clearly states that it's uncalled for), but to help them make a choice (in our legal system today, again, not debating Roe v Wade, but acknowledging that it exists) that they won't regret. Of course, I hope 100% that the choice is life, and Hillary is reaching for that to happen more often.

I don't think all the feminists are going to listen to what Hillary has to say, because some believe that their unborn child is part of their body. I don't think all the pro-lifers are going to listen to Hillary either, because she backs Roe v. Wade. If we can block out the assumption that she's trying to become president, or any other assumption, I think she can help bring the numbers down. I think it takes both sides to listen and block out political differences in order for a significant outcome to happen.
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Old 01-27-2005, 11:31 AM   #29
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It's pretty simple you eliminate unwanted pregnacies as much as you can by education. Anyone who thinks that our children know everything they need to know is kidding themselves. I've worked with inner city kids and it's amazing how much they don't know.

So you eliminate the problem before anything else. You don't automatically ban abortion and send kids into alleys, without giving them the means to protect themselves. That's ridiculous. The fact is that a very large percentage of pro-choice people wouldn't and haven't had an abortion themselves. They realize the emotional scarring, I think so many think of pro-choice people as being heartless. That's simple not the case. I think most just see it as a necessary evil.

I'm glad Hillary is finally trying to make that point and trying to bridge the gap. I'm tired of this issue being simplified into yes or no. There is so much between that yes and no that needs to be taken care of before any talk of banning anything happens.
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Old 01-27-2005, 04:54 PM   #30
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Well personally, I am very much against abortion. The problem with legalising abortion is that it turns into abortion on demand very quickly, which has happened in most countries where abortion has been legalised.

The arguement in favour of legalising abortion is very often that there should be legal provision for abortion because there may be cases where there is a risk to the life of the mother. Now in reality this happens very infrequently, and there are legal mechanisms around this. Now at this stage I am not entirely convinced what agenda Hilary Clinton is pushing, but there are surely humanist secular arguements against abortion as well as religious ones?
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