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Old 02-07-2005, 06:17 PM   #31
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Nixon’s domestic and foreign record would be regarded as standing firmly in the liberal progressive tradition. Johnson has gone down in the history books as the big spender for social welfare programs, yet federal spending grew faster during Nixon’s tenure than during Johnson’s. It was under Nixon that social spending came to exceed defense spending for the first time. Social spending soared from $55 billion in 1970 (Nixon’s first budget) to $132 billion in 1975, from 28 percent of the federal budget when LBJ left office to 40 percent of the budget by the time Nixon left in 1974. While Nixon would criticize and attempt to reform welfare, he nonetheless approved massive increases in funding for other Great Society programs such as the Model Cities program and the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Some of the changes in spending policies that Nixon supported, such as automatic cost-of-living increases for Social Security recipients and other entitlement programs, contributed to runaway spending trends in successive decades. Federal spending for the arts, which went mostly to cultural elites who hated Nixon, quadrupled. Economist Herbert Stein, who served on Nixon’s Council of Economic Advisers, summed up this dubious record: "The administration that was against expanding the budget expanded it greatly; the administration that was determined to fight inflation ended by having a large amount of it."

The explosion in spending was matched by an equally dramatic explosion in federal regulation-from an administration that regarded itself as pro-business. The number of pages in the Federal Register (the roster of federal rules and regulations) grew only 19 percent under Johnson, but a staggering 121 percent under Nixon. In civil rights, Nixon expanded the regime of "affirmative action" racial quotas and set-asides far beyond what Johnson had done. In other words, Nixon consolidated the administrative state of the Great Society in much the same way that President Eisenhower (for whom Nixon served as Vice President) consolidated the New Deal. Ronald Reagan would run and govern as much against the legacy of Nixon as he would the legacy of the Great Society, and it was a number of Nixon’s administrative creations that would cause Reagan the most difficulty during his White House years.
http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/dialogue/hayward.html
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Old 02-07-2005, 06:21 PM   #32
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If Bill Clinton is a "liberal," despite Reagan accusing him of stealing his platform, then we're fucked as a nation.

Quoting Nixon on homosexuality is fairly misleading too. The APA didn't remove it as a "mental disorder" until 1973, and Nixon resigned in 1974. A different generation. It should be noted that a lot of Nixon-era fiscal conservatives come off as moderate Democrats now, because they generally disagree with all the Religious Right social conservatism that pervades the party today.

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Old 02-07-2005, 06:25 PM   #33
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Then there's Clinton

- For abortion
- For death penalty
- For affirmative action
- Against increased spending for armed forces

http://www.issues2000.org/Bill_Clinton.htm
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Old 02-07-2005, 06:58 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Then there's Clinton

- For affirmative action
Actually he wants to see it fixed and modified before completely ending it.

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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

- Against increased spending for armed forces
A stance he took 5 years ago before pre 9/11.

To call the Clintons the most liberal family in Washington is a joke. I have a feeling some of you are losing all grasp of politics.
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Old 02-07-2005, 07:55 PM   #35
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Then there's Clinton

http://www.issues2000.org/Bill_Clinton.htm
this is from the link you posted

Bill Clinton is a Moderate Populist.
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:51 PM   #36
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
To call the Clintons the most liberal family in Washington is a joke.
Care to share which president was the most liberal?
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Old 02-07-2005, 11:31 PM   #37
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As expected, I see no one bothered to read Dean's platform in the DNC. Instead, we're rehashing the same old, same old with the presidential campaign.

And the Clintons as the most "liberal family" in the White House?! Hardly!

Melon
the "same old, same old with the presidential campaign" is who he is and what he stands for. Unless he was fibbing, or as some would put it, "moving to the left".

Republicans just love this guy.

Dean: "I hate Republicans and all they stand for"

Republicans love this guy
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Old 02-08-2005, 04:49 AM   #38
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Macwannabe--that statement about the Clintons just does not hold up. Clinton's foreign policy was rather hawkish. And just look at his education stance, for example, or his welfare "reform". The Kennedys are easily more liberal. And they're probably not even the most! Clinton's legacy, for better or worse, is precisely moving the Dems center. It's how he won. And I think the DNC is paying for it now, since the 2 parties are fairly indistinguishable. Hence Dean seeming like such a breath of fresh air to some of us (though as someone on this thread pointed out, Dean's a centerist himself).

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Old 02-08-2005, 06:40 AM   #39
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Dean is indeed a centrist. You know what his NRA score is? 100%. The hard core liberals last year supported Kucinich, not Dean. In fact, the local hard core liberals in my area *hated* Dean because he wasn't lefty enough. The main thing that got him labeled a lefty was his position on Iraq. And I agree with all of this stuff about the Clintons hardly being the most liberal family in politics these days. Have you forgotten "ending welfare as we know it?" That was a total rip-off of the conservative agenda.
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Old 02-08-2005, 09:55 AM   #40
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OMG you guys! I might be able to meet him tomorrow! He's going to be at a VA Grassroots Coalition even in DC!

Sweet!

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Old 02-08-2005, 10:37 AM   #41
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Originally posted by verte76
Dean is indeed a centrist. You know what his NRA score is? 100%. The hard core liberals last year supported Kucinich, not Dean. In fact, the local hard core liberals in my area *hated* Dean because he wasn't lefty enough.
He has changed positions on a number of issues, to appear more moderate.

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Originally posted by verte76
The main thing that got him labeled a lefty was his position on Iraq. And I agree with all of this stuff about the Clintons hardly being the most liberal family in politics these days.
Not in POLITICS in general, but as far as presidents, at least in modern terms, he was more socially liberal on issues like abortion and gays than any other president, I would think.

http://www.issues2000.org/Howard_Dean.htm
"Howard Dean is a Hard-Core Liberal."
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Old 02-08-2005, 10:41 AM   #42
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It seems that, unless you have unabated homophobia, you're a "liberal."

If that's the case, I want a "hard-core liberal."

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Old 02-08-2005, 11:35 AM   #43
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Originally posted by melon
It should be noted that a lot of Nixon-era fiscal conservatives come off as moderate Democrats now, because they generally disagree with all the Religious Right social conservatism that pervades the party today.
I wouldn't say there is a whole line-up of Bush-likes who would run in 2008, yet. There's a good degree of ambition for independant-minded John McCain, and a surprisingly high ambition for Rudy Giuliani to contend. I doubt Rudy's pro-abortion stance will get him anywhere, but I think McCain could get the right closer to the center without dividing the right.

Getting back to Dean...

He has raised good money in the past, but I don't guarantee that he will reinvent himself in order to keep it coming. The more publicity he got, the more it hurt him. He seems as though whenever he isn't on a rant, he's holding something back. Of course he's not known so much for political correctness, and that's not really what I'm getting at. He is seen as a hot-tempered bomb, but I would think that he has more charisma than John Kerry did. Still, it would surprise me if he was successful, although he wouldn't get all the publicity he did when he campaigned in 2004. I don't know if he's moderate enough, I would think Clinton is far more moderate. I would say if Dean can unite the moderate left - such as the Clinton/Leibermann types - and the harder left, I'd be surprised.
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Old 02-08-2005, 11:59 AM   #44
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I wouldn't say there is a whole line-up of Bush-likes who would run in 2008, yet. There's a good degree of ambition for independant-minded John McCain, and a surprisingly high ambition for Rudy Giuliani to contend. I doubt Rudy's pro-abortion stance will get him anywhere, but I think McCain could get the right closer to the center without dividing the right.
But the Religious Right has had a taste of power, and they have openly admitted that they have no interest in ceding it. They think they own the GOP now, so that rules out people like McCain or Giuliani. On the contrary, in the 2000 primary contest, conservatives ruined McCain by slanderous "push polls." One push poll implied he had an interracial affair. That was enough to take him out, and it's shameful that racist tactics still work (but former Sen. Jesse Helms made a career out of racist campaigning).

If McCain had survived to become president in the 2000 election, I probably would have a more favorable view of the GOP, and I think he would have had a wider margin of victory.

Quote:
He has raised good money in the past, but I don't guarantee that he will reinvent himself in order to keep it coming. The more publicity he got, the more it hurt him. He seems as though whenever he isn't on a rant, he's holding something back. Of course he's not known so much for political correctness, and that's not really what I'm getting at. He is seen as a hot-tempered bomb, but I would think that he has more charisma than John Kerry did. Still, it would surprise me if he was successful, although he wouldn't get all the publicity he did when he campaigned in 2004. I don't know if he's moderate enough, I would think Clinton is far more moderate. I would say if Dean can unite the moderate left - such as the Clinton/Leibermann types - and the harder left, I'd be surprised.
First off, Dean is going to be the chair of the Democratic National Committee. He won't be running for President, and nor does he believe he should be setting the political policy. The role of the chair of the DNC is to organize candidates and raise money. He has a proven ability to do both of that, as the candidates he worked to get elected through his organization, "Democracy for America," had a respectable track record of getting elected, even in "conservative" red states.

Dean, as a presidential candidate, did shoot his mouth off, and even I was turned off by his overemphasis on opposition to the Iraq war. However, after reading a lot of what he has said in running for the DNC chair, I find myself agreeing with most everything he has said. Dean wants to work hard to make the party appeal to the South and West, and I believe he can do that.

Melon
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Old 02-08-2005, 01:31 PM   #45
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

http://www.issues2000.org/Howard_Dean.htm
"Howard Dean is a Hard-Core Liberal."
I find it interesting that you think Clinton who showed up right smack in the middle to be "most liberal" and Dean who's not even a full square out of moderate is considered "hard core liberal" on the graphs you supplied. I guess your medium line is much further to the right than the majority of people.

And yes I second what Melon said, I think some in here are quite confused as to what the chair actually does.
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