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Old 08-16-2005, 11:39 PM   #91
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The thing is, weren't they dead against the civil rights movement at the time? Oh, that's the point, right? The right had to 'tolerate' giving blacks some goddamn respect, so now libruls have to 'tolerate' putting gays out of the circle of trust (assuming they were ever let in in the first place). Fair trade? Hmmm.
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:51 AM   #92
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http://www.boston.com/news/globe/mag...le_gay?mode=PF

I hope this will work, I'll post the whole article if it doesn't

Just to be clear, in NO WAY am I posting this to support anything that Dobson guy says..I don't think it does at all, but just to avoid any misunderstanding

"Patrick exhibits behavior called childhood gender nonconformity, or CGN. This doesn't describe a boy who has a doll somewhere in his toy collection or tried on his sister's Snow White outfit once, but rather one who consistently exhibits a host of strongly feminine traits and interests while avoiding boy-typical behavior like rough-and-tumble play. There's been considerable research into this phenomenon, particularly in males, including a study that followed boys from an early age into early adulthood. The data suggest there is a very good chance Patrick will grow up to be homosexual. Not all homosexual men show this extremely feminine behavior as young boys. But the research indicates that, of the boys who do exhibit CGN, about 75 percent of them - perhaps more - turn out to be gay or bisexual.

What makes the case of Patrick and Thomas so fascinating is that it calls into question both of the dominant theories in the long-running debate over what makes people gay: nature or nurture, genes or learned behavior. As identical twins, Patrick and Thomas began as genetic clones. From the moment they came out of their mother's womb, their environment was about as close to identical as possible - being fed, changed, and plopped into their car seats the same way, having similar relationships with the same nurturing father and mother. Yet before either boy could talk, one showed highly feminine traits while the other appeared to be "all boy," as the moms at the playgrounds say with apologetic shrugs.

"That my sons were different the second they were born, there is no question about it," says the twins' mother.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:31 AM   #93
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I've been reading through this thread for a day or so, so I might as well jump in with my two cents since I am gay and Christian as well. This nonsensical garbage from James Dobson and company is simply more right-wing extremist propaganda fostered by a desperately insecure and fearful human being and his equally ignorant followers. All of these far right zealots seem to be carbon copies of one another these days, don't they?. Sad thing is, they are actually intelligent people, many of them very well-educated, not to mention well-funded, and they will do anything to protect their own version of Chrisianity. This includes espousing the kind of psychobabble that we have seen quoted from Dobson's organization here.

As for me personally, I am a very masculine guy whose favorite thing is to watch college football on a Saturday with a few cold beers nearby. I dress like a man, act like a man, and have never deviated from that in any way. I am who I am. According to Dobson, I should have never been gay, but straight instead. Hmmm. I guess something strange and funny must have happened on the way to the forum. There goes Dobson's theory up in flames.

This stuff is all truly pathetic, and is a disgrace to those of us who are Christian, but follow the principles of Jesus (Remember him, Dobson?) more than those of Jerry Falwell and James Dobson. Can you blame us? This country is in a bad way on this front right now, but I am hopeful that the pendulum will swing back the other way, more towards the center from the far right. Anyways, just my opinion.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:34 AM   #94
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Yay, a new gay voice in FYM.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:55 AM   #95
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Just for the record on the whole 'what makes a boy gay etc' one of my best friends from childhood was more interested in doing my hair and dressing up in my mums clothes with me, we played dr's and nurses and he was the nurse, he had two brothers who were real little bastards who would be ideal candidates for "sterotypical straight dickhead males" and he never had anything to do with him. In high school he used to wear eyeliner and clips in his hair, play the guitar, write poetry, watch foreign movies and sometimes yes, would even wear skirts over his pants *gasp*

but you know what? He was my boyfriend for three yearsand really, the best sex i've ever had. He's now married with a kid, and STILL wears eyeliner when he goes out and little fiary clips in his hair.

I wish all men were like that. I'd take me a "gay acting" man over a straight muscle necked *shudder* man anyday....

stupid weirdos....when are they going to get that no oneWANTS to be like them, and that there is no such this as normal (cause yeah, snapping a rubber band on your daughters leg because she is suckling at your breast for 5 mins too long is "normal") f*ck off.

sorry if i was a bit personal, but this thread just made me laugh and cry at the same time :/
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:32 PM   #96
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What parent would worry enough to care about whether their child is straight or gay? I mean are they supposed to stop it if they see it? There are lots of other things to worry about that affect their child.
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:33 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
What parent would worry enough to care about whether their child is straight or gay? I mean are they supposed to stop it if they see it? There are lots of other things to worry about that affect their child.
I wish this rang true, but you are obviously new to FYM. We see it far too much in here.
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:58 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
What parent would worry enough to care about whether their child is straight or gay?
Sadly, quite a few.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
I mean are they supposed to stop it if they see it?
That's what these "family" groups are suggesting they do, yeah. And that's what some parents try to do.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
There are lots of other things to worry about that affect their child.
Totally agree with you. But unfortunately, some parents think making their child's sexual orientation to be what they want it to be is the utmost important thing. Heaven forbid the kid just be themselves and go with whatever makes them happiest.

Angela
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Old 08-17-2005, 06:19 PM   #99
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scarily enough, when i was a kid my dad used to being home "focus on the family" and books by this Dobson guy.

i'd like to adapt his guidelines to my life then:

I refused to wear a dress/skirt till i was 13

I had lego and mechano and he-man toys and only liked Ken and not Barbie (except for Barbies car, that was cool!)

I have a sporting ability thats not exactly feminine (i'm yet to find a male friend who can throw further than me!) and when i wasn't climbing up trees I used to spend my time running after footballs, cricket balls, rugby balls etc - if you can kick or hit it, i will!

I ONLY spent time with boys when i was a kid - girls were annoying

I liked "rough and tumble" games that apparently should only be for guys and i WISH my dad would play catch with me.

and so on and so forth, you get the point.

so i guess i'm either a straight guy (nope) or i should be a raging lesbian right?

WRONG!!

i like skirts and high heels and make up and can be particularly feminine and graceful when i want/need to be.
yes, i'm still not one of those girls who likes to spend 2 hours doing her nails and most of the time i dont really give a flying toss about whether my makeup is as perfectly applied as it was when i first put it on in the day.
so i'm not the girliest of girls but personally thats a quality i like about myself - time is far better spent drinking beer and playing playstation with your friends than it is doing your hair!

and, most importantly, I REALLY like men...

scarily enough, because i knew my dad was familiar with focus and James Dobson, i casually mentioned it to him and my mom later today... he thinks he agrees with them

sometimes i wonder about my family
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Old 08-17-2005, 07:03 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
What parent would worry enough to care about whether their child is straight or gay? I mean are they supposed to stop it if they see it? There are lots of other things to worry about that affect their child.
Well, since you asked what type of parent I'll give you my answer: A bad one.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:11 PM   #101
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Quote:


But unfortunately, some parents think making their child's sexual orientation to be what they want it to be is the utmost important thing. Heaven forbid the kid just be themselves and go with whatever makes them happiest.

Angela
Sad but true, Angela. I can understand parents wanting what's best for their kids, and some are genuinely convinced they are right, but making their children their own personal clones or robots is just plain WRONG. Individuality is one of the most beautiful things about human nature. It's nice to see so many people on this thread that have it all in good perspective. Kudos to all of you!

BTW, Angela, your signiture with Bono in it just absolutely rocks! The man really looks larger than life in that clip. Of course, he does that a lot.
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Old 08-18-2005, 06:03 AM   #102
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This would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that these type of people have so much political influence right now.
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Old 08-18-2005, 06:52 AM   #103
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How to tell if your child is homosexual?

Your son fancies boys / your daughter fancies girls.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

Oh hang on, they might just be Bi
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:18 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by digsy
so i guess i'm either a straight guy (nope) or i should be a raging lesbian right?

WRONG!!

i like skirts and high heels and make up and can be particularly feminine and graceful when i want/need to be.
yes, i'm still not one of those girls who likes to spend 2 hours doing her nails and most of the time i dont really give a flying toss about whether my makeup is as perfectly applied as it was when i first put it on in the day.
so i'm not the girliest of girls but personally thats a quality i like about myself - time is far better spent drinking beer and playing playstation with your friends than it is doing your hair!

and, most importantly, I REALLY like men...


you sound like a dream woman for many a secure straight man.

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Old 08-18-2005, 04:28 PM   #105
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Originally posted by MCF74
Sad but true, Angela. I can understand parents wanting what's best for their kids, and some are genuinely convinced they are right, but making their children their own personal clones or robots is just plain WRONG. Individuality is one of the most beautiful things about human nature.
Exactly.

Whenever the day comes when I have kids, all I hope and ask for is that they are good, kind, caring, upstanding citizens. If they're straight, gay, bi, transsexual, whatever, and they're happy and comfortable with themselves being such, and they find somebody they really love and want to be with, and that person treats them well, great, that's all I need to know. Hopefully I'll be lucky to have kids at a time when that kind of thing won't make a difference to people anymore.

Quote:
Originally posted by MCF74
It's nice to see so many people on this thread that have it all in good perspective. Kudos to all of you!
Ditto .

Quote:
Originally posted by MCF74
BTW, Angela, your signiture with Bono in it just absolutely rocks! The man really looks larger than life in that clip. Of course, he does that a lot.
Hehe, thanks, glad you like it . Another kind girl from the PLEBA area made it, though...I'm totally inept at that sort of thing . I just liked it and put it in my sig.

Also, sorry to hear that about your parents agreeing with this James Dobson guy, digsy. But for what it's worth, you sound pretty cool to me. You're comfortable with who you are, which is always a good thing to see in a person . I'm with Irvine, there's a guy out there who's bound to appreciate your qualities .

Angela
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