how to tell if your child is a homosexual

[Kieran McConville]

The thing is, weren't they dead against the civil rights movement at the time? Oh, that's the point, right? The right had to 'tolerate' giving blacks some goddamn respect, so now libruls have to 'tolerate' putting gays out of the circle of trust (assuming they were ever let in in the first place). Fair trade? Hmmm.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/14/what_makes_people_gay?mode=PF

I hope this will work, I'll post the whole article if it doesn't

Just to be clear, in NO WAY am I posting this to support anything that Dobson guy says..I don't think it does at all, but just to avoid any misunderstanding

"Patrick exhibits behavior called childhood gender nonconformity, or CGN. This doesn't describe a boy who has a doll somewhere in his toy collection or tried on his sister's Snow White outfit once, but rather one who consistently exhibits a host of strongly feminine traits and interests while avoiding boy-typical behavior like rough-and-tumble play. There's been considerable research into this phenomenon, particularly in males, including a study that followed boys from an early age into early adulthood. The data suggest there is a very good chance Patrick will grow up to be homosexual. Not all homosexual men show this extremely feminine behavior as young boys. But the research indicates that, of the boys who do exhibit CGN, about 75 percent of them - perhaps more - turn out to be gay or bisexual.

What makes the case of Patrick and Thomas so fascinating is that it calls into question both of the dominant theories in the long-running debate over what makes people gay: nature or nurture, genes or learned behavior. As identical twins, Patrick and Thomas began as genetic clones. From the moment they came out of their mother's womb, their environment was about as close to identical as possible - being fed, changed, and plopped into their car seats the same way, having similar relationships with the same nurturing father and mother. Yet before either boy could talk, one showed highly feminine traits while the other appeared to be "all boy," as the moms at the playgrounds say with apologetic shrugs.

"That my sons were different the second they were born, there is no question about it," says the twins' mother.

 

[MCF74]

I've been reading through this thread for a day or so, so I might as well jump in with my two cents since I am gay and Christian as well. This nonsensical garbage from James Dobson and company is simply more right-wing extremist propaganda fostered by a desperately insecure and fearful human being and his equally ignorant followers. All of these far right zealots seem to be carbon copies of one another these days, don't they?. Sad thing is, they are actually intelligent people, many of them very well-educated, not to mention well-funded, and they will do anything to protect their own version of Chrisianity. This includes espousing the kind of psychobabble that we have seen quoted from Dobson's organization here.

As for me personally, I am a very masculine guy whose favorite thing is to watch college football on a Saturday with a few cold beers nearby. I dress like a man, act like a man, and have never deviated from that in any way. I am who I am. According to Dobson, I should have never been gay, but straight instead. Hmmm. I guess something strange and funny must have happened on the way to the forum. There goes Dobson's theory up in flames.

This stuff is all truly pathetic, and is a disgrace to those of us who are Christian, but follow the principles of Jesus (Remember him, Dobson?) more than those of Jerry Falwell and James Dobson. Can you blame us? This country is in a bad way on this front right now, but I am hopeful that the pendulum will swing back the other way, more towards the center from the far right. Anyways, just my opinion.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Yay, a new gay voice in FYM.

 

[dazzlingamy]

Just for the record on the whole 'what makes a boy gay etc' one of my best friends from childhood was more interested in doing my hair and dressing up in my mums clothes with me, we played dr's and nurses and he was the nurse, he had two brothers who were real little bastards who would be ideal candidates for "sterotypical straight dickhead males" and he never had anything to do with him. In high school he used to wear eyeliner and clips in his hair, play the guitar, write poetry, watch foreign movies and sometimes yes, would even wear skirts over his pants *gasp*

but you know what? He was my boyfriend for three yearsand really, the best sex i've ever had. He's now married with a kid, and STILL wears eyeliner when he goes out and little fiary clips in his hair.

I wish all men were like that. I'd take me a "gay acting" man over a straight muscle necked *shudder* man anyday....

stupid weirdos....when are they going to get that no oneWANTS to be like them, and that there is no such this as normal (cause yeah, snapping a rubber band on your daughters leg because she is suckling at your breast for 5 mins too long is "normal") f*ck off.

sorry if i was a bit personal, but this thread just made me laugh and cry at the same time :/

 

[Sonoftelepunk]

What parent would worry enough to care about whether their child is straight or gay? I mean are they supposed to stop it if they see it? There are lots of other things to worry about that affect their child.

 

[BVS]

What parent would worry enough to care about whether their child is straight or gay? I mean are they supposed to stop it if they see it? There are lots of other things to worry about that affect their child.

I wish this rang true, but you are obviously new to FYM. We see it far too much in here.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

What parent would worry enough to care about whether their child is straight or gay?

Sadly, quite a few.

Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
I mean are they supposed to stop it if they see it?

That's what these "family" groups are suggesting they do, yeah. And that's what some parents try to do.

Originally posted by Sonoftelepunk
There are lots of other things to worry about that affect their child.

Totally agree with you. But unfortunately, some parents think making their child's sexual orientation to be what they want it to be is the utmost important thing. Heaven forbid the kid just be themselves and go with whatever makes them happiest.

Angela

 

[digsy]

scarily enough, when i was a kid my dad used to being home "focus on the family" and books by this Dobson guy.

i'd like to adapt his guidelines to my life then:

I refused to wear a dress/skirt till i was 13

I had lego and mechano and he-man toys and only liked Ken and not Barbie (except for Barbies car, that was cool!)

I have a sporting ability thats not exactly feminine (i'm yet to find a male friend who can throw further than me!) and when i wasn't climbing up trees I used to spend my time running after footballs, cricket balls, rugby balls etc - if you can kick or hit it, i will!

I ONLY spent time with boys when i was a kid - girls were annoying

I liked "rough and tumble" games that apparently should only be for guys and i WISH my dad would play catch with me.

and so on and so forth, you get the point.

so i guess i'm either a straight guy (nope) or i should be a raging lesbian right?

WRONG!!

i like skirts and high heels and make up and can be particularly feminine and graceful when i want/need to be.
yes, i'm still not one of those girls who likes to spend 2 hours doing her nails and most of the time i dont really give a flying toss about whether my makeup is as perfectly applied as it was when i first put it on in the day.
so i'm not the girliest of girls but personally thats a quality i like about myself - time is far better spent drinking beer and playing playstation with your friends than it is doing your hair!

and, most importantly, I REALLY like men...

scarily enough, because i knew my dad was familiar with focus and James Dobson, i casually mentioned it to him and my mom later today... he thinks he agrees with them

sometimes i wonder about my family

 

[indra]

What parent would worry enough to care about whether their child is straight or gay? I mean are they supposed to stop it if they see it? There are lots of other things to worry about that affect their child.

Well, since you asked what type of parent I'll give you my answer: A bad one.

 

[MCF74]

But unfortunately, some parents think making their child's sexual orientation to be what they want it to be is the utmost important thing. Heaven forbid the kid just be themselves and go with whatever makes them happiest.

Angela

Sad but true, Angela. I can understand parents wanting what's best for their kids, and some are genuinely convinced they are right, but making their children their own personal clones or robots is just plain WRONG. Individuality is one of the most beautiful things about human nature. It's nice to see so many people on this thread that have it all in good perspective. Kudos to all of you!

BTW, Angela, your signiture with Bono in it just absolutely rocks! The man really looks larger than life in that clip. Of course, he does that a lot.

 

[Halifax]

This would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that these type of people have so much political influence right now.

 

[Ellay]

How to tell if your child is homosexual?

Your son fancies boys / your daughter fancies girls.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

Oh hang on, they might just be Bi

 

[Irvine511]

so i guess i'm either a straight guy (nope) or i should be a raging lesbian right?

WRONG!!

i like skirts and high heels and make up and can be particularly feminine and graceful when i want/need to be.
yes, i'm still not one of those girls who likes to spend 2 hours doing her nails and most of the time i dont really give a flying toss about whether my makeup is as perfectly applied as it was when i first put it on in the day.
so i'm not the girliest of girls but personally thats a quality i like about myself - time is far better spent drinking beer and playing playstation with your friends than it is doing your hair!

and, most importantly, I REALLY like men...

you sound like a dream woman for many a secure straight man.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Sad but true, Angela. I can understand parents wanting what's best for their kids, and some are genuinely convinced they are right, but making their children their own personal clones or robots is just plain WRONG. Individuality is one of the most beautiful things about human nature.

Exactly.

Whenever the day comes when I have kids, all I hope and ask for is that they are good, kind, caring, upstanding citizens. If they're straight, gay, bi, transsexual, whatever, and they're happy and comfortable with themselves being such, and they find somebody they really love and want to be with, and that person treats them well, great, that's all I need to know. Hopefully I'll be lucky to have kids at a time when that kind of thing won't make a difference to people anymore.

Originally posted by MCF74
It's nice to see so many people on this thread that have it all in good perspective. Kudos to all of you!

Ditto .

Originally posted by MCF74
BTW, Angela, your signiture with Bono in it just absolutely rocks! The man really looks larger than life in that clip. Of course, he does that a lot.

Hehe, thanks, glad you like it . Another kind girl from the PLEBA area made it, though...I'm totally inept at that sort of thing . I just liked it and put it in my sig.

Also, sorry to hear that about your parents agreeing with this James Dobson guy, digsy. But for what it's worth, you sound pretty cool to me. You're comfortable with who you are, which is always a good thing to see in a person . I'm with Irvine, there's a guy out there who's bound to appreciate your qualities .

Angela

 

[2Hearts]

BTW, Angela, your signiture with Bono in it just absolutely rocks! The man really looks larger than life in that clip. Of course, he does that a lot.

I love that too. I've stared at it many times, and I'm a straight guy. It puts pics of Steve Kilbey to shame.

 

[digsy]

you sound like a dream woman for many a secure straight man.

ah thanks

 

[Doozer61]

i guess when my nephew would put a towel on his head and sing sonny and cher songs, we should have known then.

oh, he was always cher.

 

[shart1780]

When he gets sweaty by watching Richard Simmons videos and he's not even exercising!!

 

[peacepandemic]

Who gives a crap if your kid is homosexual. I know...the same professional, upstanding, religious, conservative (or democratic), law abiding, tax paying "citizens" who also secretly beat or cheat on their spouses and kids and gossip about their neighbors...


Long live America! (we're not into terrorism I promise!) *rollseyes*

 

[Palace_Hero]

Wow I hadn't seen this till now. So silly its actually funny.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Well a gay child (especially male given the family name and paternal lineage) is more or less a dead end for a family line these days. If you allowed for gay marriage, adoption and access to reproductive technologies then I suspect that sexual orientation would be less of a problem to some parents. And this change would have broader social implications ~ few of them detrimental, most neutral and a few positive.

 

[MadelynIris]

Another interesting quote from Mrs Springsteen's article:

Canadian researchers have consistently documented a "big-brother effect," finding that the chances of a boy being gay increase with each additional older brother he has. (Birth order does not appear to play a role with lesbians.) So, a male with three older brothers is three times more likely to be gay than one with no older brothers, though there's still a better than 90 percent chance he will be straight. They argue that this results from a complex interaction involving hormones, antigens, and the mother's immune system

 

[Angela Harlem]

I hope the parent in that article only means superficially treating them identically. Ask any twin what pisses them off, and it will be not being treated as individuals, but as a half of one whole. I'd like to hope this, but the last sentence makes me cringe.

This reminds me in some weird way, of a pair of boys we had at a centre I worked at for children with disabilities. The 5 year old was definitely autistic. He had absolute traits. But there was this bizarre debate over his little 3 year old brother who half the staff suspected wasn't autistic as well, as thought, but had learned some of the milder traits from his older brother and was naturally just subdued and quiet but it had led to the diagnosis incorrectly. They'd both be a lot older now, and I'm sure their situation has resolved itself to be truthful now, regardless of which was was fact. But it was the most interesting case of nature vs nurture I'd seen.

 

[stammer476]

according to James Dobson:

"Girls can continue to grow in their identification with their mothers. But, they need to be monitored closely. If baby girls are nursed they should only suckle for nourishment. If they seemed too obsessed with the breast or become too excitable at the bare breast this could be an early warning sign of lesbianism. A rubber band around the leg can be helpful here. At times of over excitement a quick snap of the band is excellent aversion therapy for impure thoughts. Even at 18 months proper gender imprinting is possible."



http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0021girls.cfm

Sorry, I know I'm terribly behind on this. I was out of town for several weeks. Forgive me.

Deep, is there another link for this article? The current one isn't working, and I can't find it anywhere on the site. Can anyone help?

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I just typed the first line of the article into google and it came up at this location:

http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0021043.cfm

 

[stammer476]

Weird. I tried that earlier and nothing came up. Thanks!!

 

[stammer476]

Well, I discovered my google search didn't work because that's not the right article. The first sentence is there, but the rest goes onto something else.

Call me a skeptic, but I'm beginning to wonder if this quote is genuine. The first sentence from the quote isn't even from Dobson. It's from a book by a psychologist named Joseph Nicolosi.

 

[Irvine511]

Well, I discovered my google search didn't work because that's not the right article. The first sentence is there, but the rest goes onto something else.

Call me a skeptic, but I'm beginning to wonder if this quote is genuine. The first sentence from the quote isn't even from Dobson. It's from a book by a psychologist named Joseph Nicolosi.

in the article, someone writes a letter to Dobson about the subject, and he spends lots of space quoting Nicolosi and recommends his book to parents who are concerned about their possibly pre-homoseuxal children.

it's not a Dobson quote, but it is a quote endorsed by Dobson.

 

[BVS]

Call me a skeptic, but I'm beginning to wonder if this quote is genuine. The first sentence from the quote isn't even from Dobson. It's from a book by a psychologist named Joseph Nicolosi.

Are we trying to find a way to defend this guy?