how to tell if your child is a homosexual

[Moonlit_Angel]

When I was a kid, I played with both "girl" and "boy" toys. I played with dolls and had a couple of dollhouses and played with those constantly. But I also played with toy cars and had some action figure toys and such, and I also pretended to be male characters from my favorite movies. I also hate wearing makeup, and rarely ever wear jewelry or dress up or put on nail polish or mess with my hair or stuff like that. So I can only imagine what these groups would say about people like me .

These people need to let go of the idea that they can change God's will. If you are gay that is his will.

Yeah, really. They're presuming to know what God wants/override his will...I thought that was a sin in their beloved book. Go figure hypocrites, huh?

Also, geez, going by these things this "family" group (from now on I think I'll put that word in quotations when I refer to groups like this, because I really don't understand how this kind of attitude is a "good family" one), some of my favorite musicians should be gay, 'cause they've worn makeup, dressed in drag, and expressed sensitive feelings through music...all during their adult years, long after the time these people suggest these sorts of issues be sorted out. And yet, from what I understand, they're all as straight as can be. Hmmm. I wonder how that worked out?

A to your friend, VertigoGal...I feel so sad for people who live in households with people who support this "family" group's kind of thinking and stuff like that. And to this idiot group's suggestion about stopping a woman from being "too interested" (how the hell do you determine that?) in a breast.

James Dobson and the "family" groups along these lines can, quite simply, bite me.

Angela

 

[BluRmGrl]

Ok.... it's 5 hours since my last post in this thread. I've read over the responses since and while the comments being made here give me hope that the whole damn world isn't effin' bonkers -- it still makes me !!!

I just wish I knew what these people are soooo afraid of!! Maybe then I could at least try to see their side of this. As it is, I just write 'em off as absolute quacks & shake my head in shame as a fellow human being.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I just wish I knew what these people are soooo afraid of!! Maybe then I could at least try to see their side of this. As it is, I just write 'em off as absolute quacks & shake my head in shame as a fellow human being.

Ditto these sentiments completely . I understand your frustration.

Angela

 

[echo0001]

Wha...?

Is... ghe...

A... h... ga...

B... wh...

(totally fucking speachless. not to mention stuttering with rage.)





These people are the sick ones. Frighteningly, seriously sick. This shit is horrendous.



btw, I hated Barbies and baby dolls, I played with trucks and cars, I begged for a big yellow Tonka dump truck for Xmas when I was six and a couple months later I whacked my nephew over the head with it, when me and all my little girl friends played Dukes of Hazzard I was Bo, I climbed trees and played with blacksnakes, and I loathed wearing dresses and\or anything with lace and bows on it.
Am I supposed to be a lesbian?
'Cause I am so NOT.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

On a side note, there was a gay man who was a former member of the Church of Scientology on Anderson Cooper 360 last night who talked about how Scientologists believe they can "cure" gay people

So it's not just "Christians" (obviously put in quotes for a reason) like Dobson who have these twisted thoughts. Doesn't make it right of course, but just throwing that out there for what it's worth..

 

[Irvine511]

On a side note, there was a gay man who was a former member of the Church of Scientology on Anderson Cooper 360 last night who talked about how Scientologists believe they can "cure" gay people

no wonder Tom Cruise is so into Scientology ... still, judging from the rumors, it hasn't cured him of anything.

 

[BluRmGrl]

no wonder Tom Cruise is so into Scientology ... still, judging from the rumors, it hasn't cured him of anything.

Ooh... MEE-YOW.

 

[verte76]

This is fd up.

 

[melon]

These people are the sick ones. Frighteningly, seriously sick. This shit is horrendous.

And these are the people influencing the Republican Party right now. No, they may not be mainstream, but when Focus on the Family hurls a homophobic slur, the Bush Administration listens and offers similarly nonsensical justification for a federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

This country is very sick, and Christianity has become a colossal joke.

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

what i find most sad is less the anti-gay rehetoric, but the total fear of diversity and uniqueness. the essence of all of their teachings is that "normal" or "proper" boys behave in one way, and "normal" or "proper" girls behave in another. deviation from this expected standard is to be recognized, addressed, and controlled through parental intervention and professional help if needed.

i thought it was very telling that so-called gay traits -- precocious, interpersonal skills, artistic skills, etc. -- are signs of dysfunction, as opposed to gifts to be nurtured. what is wrong if your boy is quiet, gentle, and prefers piano and paints to football and wrestling? why isn't that okay?

what a dull, dull world we would live in if all men behaved the same way, and all women behaved in another. it's deviation from the norm that provides life with spice, mystery, and is probably the source of much of art -- it is precisely being different, and observations on life made from a point of difference and deviation from the norm, that comprise most great art i can think of, from Rembrant to Shakespeare to Scorcese to REM.

would we even be human if we were all the same?

no, we'd be pod people.

and that's precisely what Dobson and his ilk want. we're here to eat, shit, pray, make money, tithe, and spawn little replicas of ourselves who likewise eat, shit, pray, make money, tithe, and spawn.

 

[LadyRhia]

Someone needs to put together some brochures for the kids of these people, e.g.:-

(1) How to tell if your parent is a whacko

(2) How to cope with troubled parents

etc

Thats a very good idea .

 

[daygloeyes2]

according to James Dobson:

"Girls can continue to grow in their identification with their mothers. But, they need to be monitored closely. If baby girls are nursed they should only suckle for nourishment. If they seemed too obsessed with the breast or become too excitable at the bare breast this could be an early warning sign of lesbianism. A rubber band around the leg can be helpful here. At times of over excitement a quick snap of the band is excellent aversion therapy for impure thoughts. Even at 18 months proper gender imprinting is possible."



http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0021girls.cfm

So this guy is suggesting you physically abuse your toddler because they supposedly show signs of being gay? I'd like to snap him with a rubber band for saying all these ridiculous things.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

what i find most sad is less the anti-gay rehetoric, but the total fear of diversity and uniqueness. the essence of all of their teachings is that "normal" or "proper" boys behave in one way, and "normal" or "proper" girls behave in another. deviation from this expected standard is to be recognized, addressed, and controlled through parental intervention and professional help if needed.

i thought it was very telling that so-called gay traits -- precocious, interpersonal skills, artistic skills, etc. -- are signs of dysfunction, as opposed to gifts to be nurtured. what is wrong if your boy is quiet, gentle, and prefers piano and paints to football and wrestling? why isn't that okay?

what a dull, dull world we would live in if all men behaved the same way, and all women behaved in another. it's deviation from the norm that provides life with spice, mystery, and is probably the source of much of art -- it is precisely being different, and observations on life made from a point of difference and deviation from the norm, that comprise most great art i can think of, from Rembrant to Shakespeare to Scorcese to REM.

would we even be human if we were all the same?

no, we'd be pod people.

and that's precisely what Dobson and his ilk want. we're here to eat, shit, pray, make money, tithe, and spawn little replicas of ourselves who likewise eat, shit, pray, make money, tithe, and spawn.

. Well said.

Uniqueness can be a good thing. It's a real shame that people like this Dobson guy and these groups fail to realize that. I just wish I knew what made people grow up to think the way those people in those "family" groups do. I just don't understand how people can be like that, can actually support and believe the kinds of ideas expressed there. And MrsSpringsteen, good point to consider, too. More proof of why Scientology would not be for me (also, heh, me-ow indeed, Irvine, regarding the Tom Cruise thing ).

And by the way, I quite like guys who are quiet, gentle, play piano, and paint . I think guys like that can be quite sexy . So Dobson can put that in his pipe and smoke it.

Angela

 

[XHendrix24]

Evidences of gender confusion or doubt in boys ages 5 to 11 may include:

1. A strong feeling that they are “different” from other boys.

Hmm...I seem to remember another instance where a certain boy was a little "different" than the other boys.

3. Recognize that most homosexuals “were not explicitly [so] when they were children. More often, they displayed a ‘nonmasculinity’ that set them painfully apart from other boys: unathletic — somewhat passive, unaggressive and uninterested in rough-and-tumble play. A number of them had traits that could be considered gifts: bright, precocious, social and relational, and artistically talented.”

5. A susceptibility to be bullied by other boys, who may tease them unmercifully and call them “queer,” “fag” and “gay.”

Passive aggressive, huh? You mean like turn the other cheek kind of passive aggressive?

("But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." I swear I've heard that somewhere before. Ah well, it was probably just some crazy, treehugger librul propaganda.)

Also, bright and relates well to people? You mean like some kind of teacher or something? Like, my fag son might go around and try to TEACH PEOPLE TRUTHS and BE NICE TO PEOPLE?!? I better look out for that. (Imagine that, some kind man going around teaching people about things. It does sound kind of familiar, though..)

4. The father plays an essential role in a boy’s normal development as a man. “The truth is, Dad is more important than Mom. Mothers make boys. Fathers make men.… Girls can continue to grow in their identification with their mothers. On the other hand, a boy has an additional developmental task — to disidentify from his mother and identify with his father.”

Exactly. I mean, just look at that one book..I forget what it is..wait a second..it's right on the tip of my ton...OH RIGHT. The Bible. That's it. Look at the Bible. After Jesus' childhood, you hardly ever hear of Mary again. It's obvious that she had the right idea and gave Joseph the opportunity to play his essential fatherly role to allow Jesus to become a real man. Right? I think that's right. Right? Right. Awesome. GOD RULES!!! FUCK YEAH!!!!!

 

[A_Wanderer]

Jesus was an asexual

 

[melon]

Jesus was an asexual

Maybe Mary snapped a rubber band on Jesus.

Melon

 

[BVS]

Maybe Mary snapped a rubber band on Jesus.

Melon

 

[deep]

Conservatives Rally for Justices
Leaders Ask for Nominees Who Will End Abortion and Gay Rights

By Thomas B. Edsall

Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, August 15, 2005; A02

NASHVILLE, Aug. 14 -- Prominent conservative political and religious leaders called Sunday night for Senate approval of Supreme Court nominees who will vote to end the constitutional right to abortion, against recognition of same-sex marriage and for fewer restrictions on religious expression in public places.

The Supreme Court has sanctioned "the right to kill unborn children" and opened the door to legalized "homosexual sodomy," declared Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, which co-sponsored "Justice Sunday II."

James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, told the 2,200 mostly white people in Two Rivers Baptist Church: "It doesn't matter what we think. The court rules." The Supreme Court, he said in a video broadcast, has created "an oligarchy. It's the government by the few."

Rejected Supreme Court nominee Robert H. Bork warned that the high court has defined homosexuality as "a constitutional right . . . and once homosexuality is defined as a constitutional right, there is nothing the states can do about it, nothing the people can do about it."

The event was billed as an attempt to awaken Christians to the importance of appointments to the Supreme Court, but it also served as a televised rally supporting President Bush's nomination of John G. Roberts Jr. Conservative leaders here said they hope Roberts will be the first of three or more Supreme Court justices to be chosen by Bush, whose confirmations would fundamentally alter the high court.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) said "activist courts" are imposing "state-sanctioned same-sex marriage" and "partial-birth abortion" and are "ridding the public square of any mention of our nation's religious heritage" in what amounts to "judicial supremacy, judicial autocracy."

In Supreme Court rulings, DeLay said, "rights are invented out of whole cloth. Long-standing traditions are found to be unconstitutional. Moral values that have defined the progress of human civilization for millennia are cast aside in favor of those espoused by a handful of unelected, lifetime-appointed judges."

The mega-church just across the highway from the Grand Ole Opry was packed, and the speeches were televised to other churches, on some local and cable stations and on four Christian television networks.

DeLay was the star in a procession of speakers that included former senator Zell Miller (D-Ga.), Prison Fellowship Ministries founder Chuck Colson and Eagle Forum President Phyllis Schlafly.

Miller criticized the court because it "removed prayer from our public schools . . . legalized the barbaric killing of unborn babies, and it is ready to discard like an outdated hula hoop the universal institution of marriage between a man and a woman."

Speakers compared the civil rights movement of the 1960s to demands now by Christian groups for restoration of traditional morality. "It's time we move to the front of the bus and that we take command of the wheel," said William A. Donohue, president of the Catholic League.

Liberal religious leaders denounced Justice Sunday at a news conference. "The people who are putting together Justice Sunday seem to be far more interested in power than in justice," said Barry Lynn, head of Americans United for Separation of Church and State. "They now control the White House and the Congress. This is an effort to guarantee they will control the courts as well."

The purpose of Justice Sunday is to "help Christians who care about judicial activism to better understand what judges who legislate from the bench have done to the country," Perkins said. The case against judicial activism is "a very easy case to make," requiring only the citing of court rulings against school prayer and liberalizing the treatment of gays and the abortion rights case Roe v. Wade .

 

[Kieran McConville]

Love the comment about moving the back of the bus, like the civil rights movement was a threat to anyone who doesn't hate blacks.

 

[Kieran McConville]

er, i mean 'front' of the bus. oops.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I was going to ask if that was my comment you were quoting, bt then I remembered I didn't say that in here. Funny.

I'd really love to do something to cure people of the evil that is Christianity. I'm sure with my programme of hardcore porn, gender swapping role playing, and electrocshock therapy, we can cure the world of the fucked up mentality of some Christians. And boohoo to anyone who finds this fucking offensive. It's about time you offended folks apologised for what you do to our gay and lesbian sector of the community.

 

[Dreadsox]

I'm sure with my programme of hardcore porn, gender swapping role playing, and electrocshock therapy,

Sign me up nopw...my outback special

 

[Angela Harlem]

You will have to refrain exposing your bosom. Still willing?

 

[BVS]

Speakers compared the civil rights movement of the 1960s to demands now by Christian groups for restoration of traditional morality. "It's time we move to the front of the bus and that we take command of the wheel," said William A. Donohue, president of the Catholic League.

Well we now know what some of the banned members of interference are doing now.

 

[melon]

Ah the Iranian...err...American clerics are starting their crap. Ayatollah Khomeini thought he was creating a democracy too. His logic was that since most of the nation was Shi'ite Muslim, the majority would clearly elect in a theocracy, and who the fuck cares about the minority?

Melon

 

[sharky]

What I find most interesting about all this is the emphasis placed on boys vs. girls. It's as if "well, if your daughter is a lesbo, so be it, but make sure your son plays football." I mean, look at how one-sided this propaganda is based on which gender is being emphasised. Once again, it's a man's world I guess.

That being said, as a girl, I used to leave my Barbies lying around naked [much to the chagrin of my mother] and I'm not a lesbian. And I used to watch football all the time too -- got that from my mom. Watched auto racing -- got that from my dad. And guess what? I'm married to a wonderful man who enjoys the fact that he can watch football with me without me asking every five minutes what a touchdown is.

And as someone mentioned, being artistic and creative is not a sign that you're gay. Hell, Van Gogh was a male painter and that guy cut his ear off for a woman.

Perhaps it's not the homosexuality issue that is bugging Dobson. Perhaps the idea of gender roles makes him feel more masculine and the breakdown of those roles -- girls who like football and boys who like to paint, or women who are CEOs and men who are successful teachers -- is a sign that he is feeling threatened by changes in society.

 

[Irvine511]

Perhaps it's not the homosexuality issue that is bugging Dobson. Perhaps the idea of gender roles makes him feel more masculine and the breakdown of those roles -- girls who like football and boys who like to paint, or women who are CEOs and men who are successful teachers -- is a sign that he is feeling threatened by changes in society.

i think homosexuality is an issue, but homosexuality is seen as the result of improper gender identification -- one creates the other.

there are so many, many holes in this pseudo-Freudian steaming pile of crap that it's hard to know where to begin debunking, but i think the underpinning logic is that "modern" or "secular" culture is tempting people away from their "natural" sex roles and thusly creating more homosexuals, because God doesn't make homosexuals because it says so in the Bible.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Rejected Supreme Court nominee Robert H. Bork warned that the high court has defined homosexuality as "a constitutional right . . . and once homosexuality is defined as a constitutional right, there is nothing the states can do about it, nothing the people can do about it."

They shouldn't be able to do anything about it. It's called equal rights for all, buddy. It's utterly ironic that they claim to be like the civil rights leaders of the 50s and 60s (*Snorts at that comparison*), but yet support discrimination towards gays.

Honestly, I just want to find them and tell them to grow the hell up and take the pacifiers out of their mouths.

And as for the abortion thing...I'll just say that flat out making abortion illegal will not magically solve the problem, like these people would like us to believe. That's gotta be one hell of a fantasy world those people are living in, but it's time for them to be introduced to a little thing called reality.

Angela

 

[melon]

Oh don't you get it, y'all? They're a figment of our imagination! That's what I've been told.

Melon

 

[Irvine511]

^ the greatest trick the Devil pulled was convincing us he didn't exist?


(and i don't believe in the devil)