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Old 08-27-2004, 09:59 PM   #1
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how to love a criminal

scenario:

A family member or loved one (mother, brother, father, sister, etc.) you haved loved your whole life, and, for all you know, has lived a clean and upstanding life....is suddenly arrested and charged with a crime. Not theft or DUI (I am not minimalizing these crimes), but sexual assault or molestation or murder or something like that (PLEASE, do not get bogged down in the crime). A crime that will be covered publicly, and deface your relative or loved one (with reason...they commited a crime), and, consequently, you.

How do you go about continuing to love this person? Is the love gone (I mean, the are still your relative/loved one, who has supported you and you have supported many times before)? What do you do?
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Old 08-27-2004, 10:59 PM   #2
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Its really, really hard.

You don't automatically stop loving them but things do change. I guess a lot depends on if you believe they did it (whatever they've been accused of) and if they did, are they truly remorseful and wanting forgiveness.

You can still love someone but hate the act they committed.
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Old 08-28-2004, 12:13 AM   #3
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gotta love 'em!!!
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Old 08-28-2004, 12:17 AM   #4
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I would disagree there, love is about respect and when somebody has actually commited a vile crime then all respect is lost and the love is gone, in fact resentment and even hatred can fill the place because of how hurt one may feel after the betrayal. Some things are beyond redemption.
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Old 08-28-2004, 01:17 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I would disagree there, love is about respect and when somebody has actually commited a vile crime then all respect is lost and the love is gone, in fact resentment and even hatred can fill the place because of how hurt one may feel after the betrayal. Some things are beyond redemption.
And I disagree with you. I think there is such a thing as unconditional love, which is why I have a huge problem with the concept of a loving god sending someone to hell (and why I find the idea of reincarnation more sensible).

I think it is very possible to love someone so deeply that no matter how horrible the actions there is still love. BAW said the same thing very well a couple of posts ago. When I was a child and do something wrong, I would often wail "you don't love me" when my mom would scold me. She never failed to tell me "of course, I love you. You are my child, I will always love you, no matter what. But I don't like what you did."

That's unconditional love. I'm not sure everyone is capable of it, but luckily my mom was. Well, my siblings and I never did anything that horrible, but I truly believe she would have loved us, even if we had committed horrible crimes.

But to answer the original question, I don't think you do anything to keep loving someone, I think those that are capable of unconditional love just do. It's just part of them.
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Old 08-28-2004, 02:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Some things are beyond redemption.
But the battle for the individual is what act is not beyond redemption when there is a lifelong bond of love.

God supposedly forgives...if you believe in God....should you as a loved one forgive? (Its funny I bring this up...but I am not sure I want to go down the route of "God/religion").

BAW: I think "believing they did it" is different when it has been proven that "they did it." No questioning needed...solid proof exsists.

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Old 08-28-2004, 02:19 AM   #7
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so I posted at the same time as Indra......

Unconditional love...its not something everyone has? And what drives that?

That might not be a question that could be answered, but I would be interested in ideas...
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Old 08-28-2004, 02:26 AM   #8
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Some things are beyond redemption, they can never be forgiven - having said that the battle for the individual, I am not entirely sure if I have your context right here, but trying to keep them - bring them back perhaps? That is done by the individual alone, the act may never be forgiven, they will have to carry that burden for the rest of their lives but by doing the right thing and working hard at it they may be able to earn the respect back. Forgiving without proof, that the individual has changed, can only hurt you more in the long run.

The love as respect concept is probably seperate from the unconditional love discussed here, now I cannot say that there is really an unconditional love, everything has it's limits no matter how strong it is.
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Old 08-28-2004, 03:32 AM   #9
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To me nothing is beyond redemption. I've forgiven some heinous things done to me in my time. But who knows, until it happens to you. My mother has a cousin in prison for life, I won't say the crime, but she visits him at least once a year and he always gives her something he made in art class. It's hard on her, but she knows he grew up in a hard life and that things were very difficult for him, she doesn't excuse his crime, but she still loves the man. I have a friend right now who's on trial for a crime he commited. I know he did it, he's not denied it. I know he didn't commit this crime with any malous in his heart, but the law defines what he did as wrong. I feel sorry for the guy, I don't excuse his crime, but I still love this friend. He will more than likely spend a lot of time in prison and his life will be changed and all I can do is pray that he finds a way to live as much of a life as he can.

I don't believe in a hierarchy of sins. There are sins that are harder to forgive than others, that's just human. But I believe we're all called upon to forgive our fellow man.
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Old 08-28-2004, 03:34 AM   #10
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We are called upon to live and die, nothing more and nothing less.
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Old 08-28-2004, 03:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
We are called upon to live and die, nothing more and nothing less.
No, those are the things we have no choice in. We are called upon to do much more than that. Even if you don't believe in God, a lot more than breathing oxygen and then one day not is needed for humanity to exist. Would humanity last this long on pure animal attraction? This is the question that separates us from animals. We have the choice not to breed. How many humans have children based on instinct? Where would humanity be if love didn't exist? I think we would have been wiped out by now.
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Old 08-28-2004, 05:48 AM   #12
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Actually depends upon the crime.

If the crime involved is rape- murder for lust purpose or murder for getting money, how do you forgive it ?

If its just theft, then its ok .. or just trying to chase girls...or comments amounting to sexual molestation.. you would try to explain your loved one not to do such things in future.

I disagree with indra which means I kind of agree with A_Wanderer.

Some crimes are not not forgivable. Infact forgiveness would cause more harm.
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Old 08-28-2004, 05:53 AM   #13
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We are not seperate from animals, we are just animals who have conquered the world with our highly sophisticated social structure and ability to manipulate our environment using tools.

Love is but a biochemical adaption that enables parental care and social structure to exist, traits that have proven successful and thus passed down through DNA.

We are all in this together, we are called upon to live and die - what we do in between is called free will and for better or worse that is where our "humanity" is shown.
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Old 08-28-2004, 08:45 AM   #14
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Good thing forgiveness and redemption isn't our place.
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Old 08-28-2004, 09:07 AM   #15
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A-Wanderer, your viewpoint troubles me. If we're really no more than highly advanced animals as you seem to believe, then what, objectively, is wrong in any amount of killing, plundering etc, if one group of people are doing it for the 'good' of their nearest and dearest?

I mean, what moral compass are you referring to? If it's just about living and dying, getting by, then where does redemption enter into it? What is your concept of redemption if you don't believe in either God or love?
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