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Old 05-24-2006, 10:52 AM   #31
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So you dragged up a picture of Hitler to counter a point nobody made?
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:54 AM   #32
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Evidently, but it was made as a statement of sarcasm provided that showed up correctly.
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Old 05-24-2006, 10:58 AM   #33
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As opposed to letting them fall into Soviet hands?

Regardless the point is that it is silly to imply that because serial killers abuse animals that PETA is right ~ likewise it is silly to argue that because Hitler liked dogs that all animal lovers are unequivocally wrong.

Although it is completely fair to say that people who intimidate researchers and vandalise private property are doing things the wrong way. Furthurmore the argument that an animals life is on par with that of a human being, or that we should imbue animals with rights (are they to be given responsibilities?) yields poor results if conducted consistently. I not only have a problem with their actions, the core principles of animal rights are antithetical to human civilization.

What are peoples stances in regards to animal testing and using animal skins for fashion, or that seal hunt up in Canada.


Maybe then we should consider that the way we treat animals is a reflection of ourselves as a civilisation.
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:17 PM   #34
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I cant answer for you! Is it or not? Yes or no.

Is animal cruelty bad? Yes.

Is it a priority over human suffering? No.

If you have $200 to donate to a charity, is PETA more worthy than a cancer, AIDS, hunger, poverty, etc. charity?

PETA would like you to think so. And their paid fundraisers.
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:30 PM   #35
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

If you have $200 to donate to a charity, is PETA more worthy than a cancer, AIDS, hunger, poverty, etc. charity?
i think using 'more worthy' creates a false dichotomy. it is possible to support both human and animal causes. it's not an either/or situation.
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:48 PM   #36
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i think using 'more worthy' creates a false dichotomy. it is possible to support both human and animal causes. it's not an either/or situation.
No, it is not false. Unless you have unlimited funds, you will need to make a choice.
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Old 05-24-2006, 12:57 PM   #37
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


No, it is not false. Unless you have unlimited funds, you will need to make a choice.
Are you willing to extend that to all your expenses? Have you ever bought something like U2 tickets, when that money could have gone to cancer research?
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:03 PM   #38
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people can choose to spread their donation funds around to different causes, even with limited amounts of funds. using the $200 from your example, $100 to the SPCA, $100 to cancer research, if those are the causes they chose to support. it's up to each person to decide what causes they support and how much they can afford/want to give. worthiness is in the eye of the donor.

if you want to get into that argument, though, no one can tell anyone else what causes are more worthy of financial support--it's an individual decision. are international aid organizations 'more worthy' of financial support than rape crisis centres? is cancer research 'more worthy' than environmental protection research? it's not a heirarchy. people will decide what causes they're willing to support, and donating money to an animal rights group isn't a concious decision not to support the myriad of other causes in the universe.
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:04 PM   #39
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Are you willing to extend that to all your expenses? Have you ever bought something like U2 tickets, when that money could have gone to cancer research?
That is a valid question, though for a different principle.


On what grounds can we say "not enough is done" for cause "X", when at the same time we enjoy various luxuries in our daily lives?

For example, is one truly concerned with world hunger when their TIVO subscription could feed a couple of people each month?
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:05 PM   #40
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


No, it is not false. Unless you have unlimited funds, you will need to make a choice.


are there certain charities that receive more funds than others due to their media exposure -- certainly, many people, including myself, made donations to the Red Cross after the Katrina debacle, but since so many of us will do that in response to a well publicized disaster or crisis, other organizations suffer.
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:06 PM   #41
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Originally posted by dandy
people can choose to spread their donation funds around to different causes, even with limited amounts of funds. using the $200 from your example, $100 to the SPCA, $100 to cancer research, if those are the causes they chose to support. it's up to each person to decide what causes they support and how much they can afford/want to give. worthiness is in the eye of the donor.

if you want to get into that argument, though, no one can tell anyone else what causes are more worthy of financial support--it's an individual decision. are international aid organizations 'more worthy' of financial support than rape crisis centres? is cancer research 'more worthy' than environmental protection research? it's not a heirarchy. people will decide what causes they're willing to support, and donating money to an animal rights group isn't a concious decision not to support the myriad of other causes in the universe.
I realize you can spread your donations around. The issue is that there is a fairly large pool of potential recipients - are they all equal or are some issues more important than other?

Do you see human life and animal life as equal in value?
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:08 PM   #42
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Originally posted by Irvine511
are there certain charities that receive more funds than others due to their media exposure -- certainly, many people, including myself, made donations to the Red Cross after the Katrina debacle, but since so many of us will do that in response to a well publicized disaster or crisis, other organizations suffer.
I'd say it is a combination of medial exposure and fundraising efforts. Many 501(c)(3) organizations will publish their tax filings, including the money spent on fundraising and administration. I think it is wise to evaluate that as part of the equation to detemine the effectiveness of the donation.
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:14 PM   #43
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Are you willing to extend that to all your expenses? Have you ever bought something like U2 tickets, when that money could have gone to cancer research?
Good point.

As a college student, I can't donate any worthwhile about of money to ANY cause. However, I try to help by my actions, instead of giving money from time to time. For example, when it comes to animal rights, I've rescued, bottle fed, and adopted out a kitten, I've taken some neglected and abandoned dogs off the street to the animal shelter, and I've adopted some cats. For environmental issues, I recycle every little thing, even tags off clothes or receipts, and I walk instead of drive. For local non-profits, I offer to create a website or help with technology support for little or no cost.

There are always ways to help out besides donating money. Honestly, I think the experiences are more meaningful and more gratifying when you're acting on your values. You get to meet people and work with people you wouldn't otherwise meet if you just gave money.

Regarding PETA, I don't actively or financially support their organization because they've said things that simply aren't true and used these lies as shock value to get more people involved. I'm not saying they're BAD, just that they're not the only animal rights organization out there and I've found others that are more in line with what I've experienced to be true.
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


That is a valid question, though for a different principle.


On what grounds can we say "not enough is done" for cause "X", when at the same time we enjoy various luxuries in our daily lives?

For example, is one truly concerned with world hunger when their TIVO subscription could feed a couple of people each month?
Well, try answering your own questions. How do you justify it for yourself?
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:19 PM   #45
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I realize you can spread your donations around. The issue is that there is a fairly large pool of potential recipients - are they all equal or are some issues more important than other?
i believe i just asked the same question--international aid vs. rape crisis centres, etc. different people will be drawn to support different causes for any variety of reasons. yes, some causes are going to be more important to some people, and that's where they'll choose to lend their support. it's an individual decision.

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

Do you see human life and animal life as equal in value?
in the context of this discussion, my opinion on that doesn't matter any more than anybody else's. how and if people choose to support various causes isn't anybody's business but theirs. period.
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