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Old 02-18-2003, 07:02 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beefeater


Brilliant Statement there, Last time I counted, there were 23 Nations that were with us in this, and Germany has recently recanted their position and would join in the military effort, or at least support it if that is what it came to.
Yes, but within the UN - that's what they all agree on - EU stated recently that inspectors need more time - not into infinity, but more time. IMO there will be less support if action is taken without Security Council consent. Even now, there are those that say "Iraq has had enough time, it's time to strike" and those that say "inspectors need more time, the diplomatic pressure IS working."
Considering Blix said things are "improving" for inspectors in Iraq, I'd agree with the latter.

And I would appreciate it if we can keep the sarcasm and things like "whining and complaining against Bush" out of this.


As for letter of support, (the Vilnius declaration) that Chirac attacked, our foreign minister (aka Secretary of state position if Americans aren't familiar with that term) signed it but he's getting a lot of critisicm. The declaration said "Powell's presentation is convincing, and we call upon Security Council to take all necessary measures to protect the world from Iraq's threat." If you ask me, clearly this was support of US. According do our minister we stand with EU on this (we signed another Europe declaration), but we also don't want to take sides against US.



Personally, I think there will be war either way.
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:30 AM   #32
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When we say a country supports this or doesn't, are we talking about the governments or the people? They aren't necessarily reflective of mutual views.
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Griffiths

). Basically, the US's position is based on fear. That fear is based on a

BTW, Cretien isn't as much of a fool as people make him out to be. He knows very well why he should remain distant on this issue. He (publicly) supports the US, but like everyone else, he thinks it would be very unwise to go in without UN consent. And he's right.
I think this is cleary wrong.
The US policy on Iraq is dictated by-recent patterns of behahiour and 12 yrs of defiance.


Doesnt Jean and France have LARGE OIL CONTRACTS w/Iraq?
Is this the real cause of Jean's humanitarism?
Support a tyrant cuz of billion-dollar oil contracts.?

Lovely

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Old 02-18-2003, 10:41 AM   #34
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I have a question.....and I think it is a relevant one?

Is there anyone out there who can figure out why so many people, like Blair (and others), are risking their political future by going against the popular opinion of their people on this issue?
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Old 02-18-2003, 10:50 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I have a question.....and I think it is a relevant one?

Is there anyone out there who can figure out why so many people, like Blair (and others), are risking their political future by going against the popular opinion of their people on this issue?
Yes.
Leaders lead and do not base their careers on focus groups.

Historically if we did this-
The US would not have went after Nazi Germany.
Winston Churchill would not have fought the Battle of Brighton based on public opinion..

Comprende?

Diamond
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:59 PM   #36
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Diamond, why would Canada have billion dollar oil contracts with Iraq? We have enough oil for ourselves and we are your #1 suplier, where did you get that idea?

You are totally right though on the fact that Blair is risking his ass for Iraq but is it totally neccessary? He has been overly closeminded to his people, though he might have strong convictions he must relize that his people seem not to have war, he should listen or comprimise.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:21 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


I think this is cleary wrong.
The US policy on Iraq is dictated by-recent patterns of behahiour and 12 yrs of defiance.


Doesnt Jean and France have LARGE OIL CONTRACTS w/Iraq?
Is this the real cause of Jean's humanitarism?
Support a tyrant cuz of billion-dollar oil contracts.?

Lovely

DB9
Well, if you think it is clearly wrong that the US's position is based upon fear, that's fine by me. No one said we had to agree. However, for you to say it's "clearly wrong" is rather black and white, and quite limiting on your part. This issue is a little more complex than being only based on some of the wrongdoings that Saddam has exercised on his people over the last 10 years. Yes, it does include that, and also includes Saddam's non-compliance on various issues, but to say that there is zero fear that is contributing to this mess, is clearly a radical view.

Regarding Jean Cretien's oil interests, sorry, but you are "clearly wrong" in this case. That's not a radical statement; it's one based on fact. Do a little research, and you'll see why. Or, for a more direct perspective, look at bonoman's post.
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:36 PM   #38
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by that line of thought, Canada most certainly wouldnt want the US to be controlling more oil in the middle east, not that I believe this is why the Canadian government is against a war, but it's very easy to make a vast number of plausible connections with this country or that with all that is going on in the world right now
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:57 PM   #39
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Wanderer, that's true -- financially, everyone's going to be affected by this war, and that will be tied into the oil equation, even for Canada. I just don't think it's a big enough factor for Jean to be against this war based on that alone. Canadian oil will be in demand even after such a war.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:41 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
When we say a country supports this or doesn't, are we talking about the governments or the people? They aren't necessarily reflective of mutual views.
I dont know about other countries, but Ive seen no word in favour of a war on Iraq without UN approval here. So when our president Lula stated were against it, during his speech at the WEF and later on when he visited Germany, he was speaking for brazilians.
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:40 PM   #41
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wanderer you are totally correct. but you'll always want my oil....you thrist for it...you love it...and its cheaper!
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Old 02-18-2003, 08:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Is there anyone out there who can figure out why so many people, like Blair (and others), are risking their political future by going against the popular opinion of their people on this issue?
I will tell you why, And I didn't initially believe this about Blair during his chummy times with Clinton.

Blair, like Bush, is a man of character and principle...following what he believes to be the right thing, Just because it is unpopular does not mean that it is not right.

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Old 02-19-2003, 12:55 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond





Doesnt Jean and France have LARGE OIL CONTRACTS w/Iraq?
Is this the real cause of Jean's humanitarism?
Support a tyrant cuz of billion-dollar oil contracts.?

Lovely

DB9
hold up people, i apologize.
i meant Jack C of france not jean of canada
my bad.
too much sexycoffee this am.

Jack C is trying to be the 'pimp' of Europe.

thank u-

DB9
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Old 02-19-2003, 01:56 AM   #44
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ok i will let you go this time diamond...but next time i will not be so nice....
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Old 02-19-2003, 11:21 AM   #45
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Why is Bush so concerend with what is happening in Iraq.....I mean, Saddam only kills his own people...that doesnt affect the U.S. Also, besides ending facism, communism, and slavery....what has war ever really accomplished??

NO WAR IN IRAQ!
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