How good do you think you have to be to get into heaven?

[bonosloveslave]

I am willing to bet my salvation on the fact that someone who lives a decent life, helping others ect.....Has a wonderful place in the house of God. Sorry, there are many rooms in my father's house and no one on this planet is the doorman.

Dread posted this in another thread, I didn't want to derail it too much so I thought I'd get some opinions. Maybe Dread didn't mean 'wonderful place in the house of God' to equal heaven, I'm not sure.

Do you think you can simply be a 'good' person and get to heaven? What is your definition of 'good'? Do you even believe in the concept of heaven or an afterlife?

 

[BVS]

Afterlife? Yes.

Only God knows who "gets in". But I think he's probably a pretty cool bouncer.

 

[anitram]

Whether it's "heaven" or "nirvana" or reincarnation, essentially to me it's the same thing, because in any of those cases, you are striving to get to a better place than you are at currently, correct?

Yes, I believe it is enough to be good. I believe there are multiple paths to God and that he has revealed himself to different people differently. If you can see God in these least brothers of yours, then I think people can see God in Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, etc. Everyone who believes in a Supreme Being, I think believes in the same thing at the end of the day. We may call it by different names and we may use different roads to get there, but we will get there in the end.

I agree with Dread 100%.

I see God as merciful. I think a person who has lived an honourable life here on earth, and who tried their very best to be loving, both towards themselves and to those around them, who shared that love, gets in. This means people who were good to their families, who made an honest living, who didn't hurt others or wish them harm, who did they best they could with what they were given, who extended their empathy and their sympathy to all people, no matter how different their life experiences are, who didn't stand in moral judgment of others or preached for a superior moral pulpit.

We are all people at the end of the day. If you truly have respect for that, then you get into "heaven." Because if you respect that your fellow man is neither better nor worse than you, then you will afford them the same rights you have, and you will wish for them the same happiness you wish for yourself.

 

[bonosloveslave]

Only God knows who "gets in

That I agree with. Do you think you have any way to sway Him in His decision, or are you just hoping you catch Him on a good day when it's your turn at the pearly gates?

 

[BVS]

That I agree with. Do you think you have any way to sway Him in His decision, or are you just hoping you catch Him on a good day when it's your turn at the pearly gates?

No I just spend as much time trying to build and develop a relationship with him.

 

[nbcrusader]

Only God knows who "gets in". But I think he's probably a pretty cool bouncer.

I also agree.

The problem with multiple "truths" is that it essentially make Jesus Christ a liar.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

God made the plan simple, so no one can take selfish pride in their faith:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- not by works, so that no one can boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

God makes the decision. We cannot earn it ourselves. We should never try and play gatekeeper.

 

[anitram]

We should never try and play gatekeeper.

Yet we do.

I still agree with Dread.

 

[Dreadsox]

Dread did mean heaven...for clarification.

 

[Dreadsox]

I also agree.

The problem with multiple "truths" is that it essentially make Jesus Christ a liar.

I suppose that could lead to a wonderful debate about the Bible. If you believe to to be divinely inspired or the literal word of God. we could also debate how accurately Jesus was quoted, but then we could get into battles of faith.

 

[bonosloveslave]

Yes, I believe it is enough to be good.

I think a person who has lived an honourable life here on earth, and who tried their very best to be loving, both towards themselves and to those around them, who shared that love, gets in. This means people who were good to their families, who made an honest living, who didn't hurt others or wish them harm, who did they best they could with what they were given, who extended their empathy and their sympathy to all people, no matter how different their life experiences are, who didn't stand in moral judgment of others or preached for a superior moral pulpit.

What is being good to your family? I know I pulled some hair and kicked some shins and said mean things to my siblings - if I was nice >50% of the time is that good enough?

What's an honest living? Are strippers out?

"Didn't hurt others or wish them harm" --> Ever? Or just more than 50% of your lifetime?

"Extended empathy and sympathy to all people" --> Are you synpathetic to someone like the WTC suicide pilots? Jeffrey Dahmer? Priests who molest children? George Bush? Or can there be exceptions where you don't have to sympathetic/empathetic?

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I loved your post, anitram.

Nbc, apologies if I interpreted your post wrongly, but is it your belief that only those who believe in Jesus go to "Heaven"?

 

[Dreadsox]

What is being good to your family?

My goodness....if that is the qualification...I am out. By many peoples standards I am the root of all F'ing evil in my family.

Cross that off the list please....

Or maybe I will hit the Big Guy at the door on a good day!

By the way..Jesus is the bouncer at the door. Think about it...no one gets through him.

 

[BVS]

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

But does this necessarily mean they have to have a personal relationship with him. What if it means that some can recognise the beauty of this world and they spend their whole lives loving their neighbor and being good, but never really knew Jesus. Could Jesus come up to him or her and put his arm around them and say you know what, we never talked one on one but you were a good person, I've been watching you, come inside and meet some of my friends.

 

[Dreadsox]

Could Jesus come up to him or her and put his arm around them and say you know what, we never talked one on one but you were a good person, I've been watching you, come inside and meet some of my friends.

And I am betting he serves some KICK ASS wine.

 

[nbcrusader]

Nbc, apologies if I interpreted your post wrongly, but is it your belief that only those who believe in Jesus go to "Heaven"?

Based on how God reveals Himself through His Word, this is an acurate statement.

 

[BVS]

And I am betting he serves some KICK ASS wine.

ugggh Jesus wine. I can't wait to kick it with Jesus and Elvis over a bottle of wine, and just think there's no getting sick...

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Nbc, apologies if I interpreted your post wrongly, but is it your belief that only those who believe in Jesus go to "Heaven"?

Originally posted by Nbcrusader
Based on how God reveals Himself through His Word, this is an acurate statement.

So all of the people who believe in a religion other than Christianity, all the people who believe in no religion at all...what happens to them?

Edited to add quote.

 

[BVS]

So all of the people who believe in a religion other than Christianity, all the people who believe in no religion at all...what happens to them?

I guess they get the cheap wine.

 

[nbcrusader]

But does this necessarily mean they have to have a personal relationship with him. What if it means that some can recognise the beauty of this world and they spend their whole lives loving their neighbor and being good, but never really knew Jesus. Could Jesus come up to him or her and put his arm around them and say you know what, we never talked one on one but you were a good person, I've been watching you, come inside and meet some of my friends.

I cannot limit what Jesus can do. Based on His Word, however, it appears a personal relationship is necessary.

It would seem odd to know of Jesus, but not seek a personal relationship with Jesus, betting on the goodness of your works.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I guess they get the cheap wine.

What the hell, I prefer beer anyway.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Whether it's "heaven" or "nirvana" or reincarnation, essentially to me it's the same thing, because in any of those cases, you are striving to get to a better place than you are at currently, correct?

Yes, I believe it is enough to be good. I believe there are multiple paths to God and that he has revealed himself to different people differently. If you can see God in these least brothers of yours, then I think people can see God in Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, etc. Everyone who believes in a Supreme Being, I think believes in the same thing at the end of the day. We may call it by different names and we may use different roads to get there, but we will get there in the end.

I agree with Dread 100%.

I see God as merciful. I think a person who has lived an honourable life here on earth, and who tried their very best to be loving, both towards themselves and to those around them, who shared that love, gets in. This means people who were good to their families, who made an honest living, who didn't hurt others or wish them harm, who did they best they could with what they were given, who extended their empathy and their sympathy to all people, no matter how different their life experiences are, who didn't stand in moral judgment of others or preached for a superior moral pulpit.

We are all people at the end of the day. If you truly have respect for that, then you get into "heaven." Because if you respect that your fellow man is neither better nor worse than you, then you will afford them the same rights you have, and you will wish for them the same happiness you wish for yourself.

.

bonosloveslave...I think God realizes people will make mistakes with family and friends-they'll fight with each other on occasion and everything. But as long as they, for the most part, are good people, just generally nice people who occasionally get into some fights and stuff, he'll forgive them and still allow them in.

As for strippers...well, hey, Jesus hung out with the prostitutes, did he not? I don't see why the same can't be said here.

I think God will forgive those who do things like that, too, especially if it's done to try and make a living for their families or something. Even if he personally didn't agree with the profession they went into...he might understand their motives, and would forgive them. I don't see him punishing them severely for that.

Course...I personally don't believe in heaven and hell to begin with. I lean more toward reincarnation. But if there was a heaven and a hell, to me, hell would be saved only for murderers, rapists, molesters...people along that line. Everyone else would be able to join up with God.

Angela

 

[nbcrusader]

So all of the people who believe in a religion other than Christianity, all the people who believe in no religion at all...what happens to them?

Let's put it this way.

God is Holy - He cannot have sin in His presence.

We are sinners. On our own, we cannot be in God' presence.

God requires atonement for sin.

God sent Jesus as the perfect sacrifice to atone for our sin.

If we admit we are sinners, and put our faith in Jesus Christ, by His grace we are cleansed of our sin, thus being able to be in the presence of God forever.

We can try and build a picture of what happens when one has no atonement for sin, but I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Scripture does not define alternative pathways.

 

[Dreadsox]

We can try and build a picture of what happens when one has no atonement for sin, but I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Scripture does not define alternative pathways.

Actually, there are other pathways, although Jesus apparently is the easier pathway. Where did I put that eye of the needle.

He did not say it was impossible,....

 

[Katey]

I see God as merciful. I think a person who has lived an honourable life here on earth, and who tried their very best to be loving, both towards themselves and to those around them, who shared that love, gets in

when it's all said and done God will see what is in your heart and your soul and that will either be your ticket in or to another place I suppose .. I use use that as example as I believe in heaven. I don't know what God's criteria is going to be excatly for that. I do believe all those people who here on earth do deeds to please God there something morally wrong with that. If your running around wondering if your good deeds are going to get you into heaven there might be something wrong with the method to your madness.

Live an honourable life while your living becasue it is the right thing to do now. Love thy neighbour not as a means to an afterlife but because it is what is in your heart and soul. Live a good life because you want to be good an loving not because you want to get to heaven. that will take care of itself

The Bible says in Proverbs 14:12: "There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

We may be surprised at the people we find in heaven. God has a soft spot for sinners. His standards are quite low.? Archbiship Tutu

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

We can try and build a picture of what happens when one has no atonement for sin, but I'm not sure what that accomplishes. Scripture does not define alternative pathways.

So the Bible doesn't say anything about what happens to people who aren't Christians?

They might go to "Heaven," they might be reincarnated, they might live on Earth forever...

 

[nbcrusader]

Actually, there are other pathways, although Jesus apparently is the easier pathway. Where did I put that eye of the needle.

He did not say it was impossible,....

This is an excellent example of how we cannot earn our way to heaven. As recorded in three of the Gospels:

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:23-36

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Live a good life because you want to be good an loving not because you want to get to heaven.

.

Angela

 

[nbcrusader]

So the Bible doesn't say anything about what happens to people who aren't Christians?

They might go to "Heaven," they might be reincarnated, they might live on Earth forever...

Aside from a definite separation from God, there are only the occasional references to judgment and what can be described as eternal suffering.

But do people really make a decision for Christ based on what might happen to other people? The question is really before the individual. Will you be in the presence of God?

 

[nbcrusader]

Live a good life because you want to be good an loving not because you want to get to heaven.

Loving others is the response to the gift of grace.

"let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven" Matthew 5:16

Our love is to point people to God.

 

[bonosloveslave]

Actually, there are other pathways, although Jesus apparently is the easier pathway. Where did I put that eye of the needle.

He did not say it was impossible,....

How about Hebrews 11:6?

"So, you see, it is impossible to please God without faith. Anyone who wants to come to him must believe that there is a God and that he rewards those who sincerely seek him." (New Living Translation)

* BTW, it is really interesting to see the spread of beliefs, especially in some people where I thought I knew what they would say You never know if you don't ask!