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Old 03-04-2004, 09:17 PM   #61
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You just contradicted yourself! If Christians can go to Hell for their conduct, yet murderers can go to Heaven, what's going on?
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:19 PM   #62
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What I find funny is that Catholics accept non-Christians can get be saved. And Catholics comprise the CLEAR majority of Christians, outnumbering Protestants by a margin of MORE than 2:1.

Yet it's fundamentalist evangelicals which have hijacked Christianity for themselves and act as if though they are representative of the religion. Not only are they not, but they are a minority.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:19 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
You just contradicted yourself! If Christians can go to Hell for their conduct, yet murderers can go to Heaven, what's going on?
how's that a contradiction? if you don't accept God's grace for salvation, even if you are a Christian, you can go to Hell. If you killed someone and repent for years and come to except God's grace, you can go to Heaven. It's not a contradiction b/c like I said before the ONLY way to salvation is accepting Jesus and His grace.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:21 PM   #64
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Ephesians 2:8-9 pretty much cuts out works...



yes, by God's GRACE we gain access to the Kingdom. And again this does not say there is no other way. Who are we as the created to determine or limit God's Grace by saying there is only one way. It does not say that God's Grace is not extended to others, on the contrary, God's Grace was limited by the twisted LAW....

Verse 10:

[Q]10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.[/Q]

So clearly God expects and intends for the Creation, US, to do good works. Grace does not exclude us from doing works.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:23 PM   #65
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So clearly God expects and intends for the Creation, US, to do good works. Grace does not exclude us from doing works.
no, it doesn not, but in order for the Grace to save, you have to accept it. Doing good works and accepting Grace into your heart are very different.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:24 PM   #66
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
no, it doesn not, but in order for the Grace to save, you have to accept it. Doing good works and accepting Grace into your heart are very different.

Again, minority view.

I think it's important to point that out to people like martha, because the MAJORITY of Christians actually believes she will find salvation.

It's the minority that's the loudest, it would seem.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:24 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic

the ONLY way to salvation is accepting Jesus and His grace.
BEEP BEEP...

Play again....

Jesus can extend his grace to whomever he chooses too.....
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:25 PM   #68
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:27 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic


no, it doesn not, but in order for the Grace to save, you have to accept it. Doing good works and accepting Grace into your heart are very different.
You are assuming that the Holy Spirit, or grace or whatever you choose to call it is not present in the hearts of Non-Christians.

Taking passages out of the entire text to make a point is ihncredibly wrong.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:33 PM   #70
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the closest thing to heaven is earth and the time you spend alive on earth......

people should stop fantasising about an afterlife and live for the moment, it will do you good........

if you still had feelings or thoughts after you died, youd be pretty disappointed to find out that there is no heaven or hell, just the end of the road.....

These bloody religions, brainwashing people that they are gonna have an afterlife, poor buggers....they don't know what they are missing...

'Heaven' only exists during a lifetime, during the period where you can make a moment memorable, so make it happen, here on earth....
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:33 PM   #71
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You guys are making my head spin. Dinner and a walk with my dog will help.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:34 PM   #72
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But don't Calvinists believe in an elect?
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:40 PM   #73
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But don't Calvinists believe in an elect?
true Calvinist, yes. I do not. I believe ANYONE can go to Heaven.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:44 PM   #74
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Originally posted by anitram



Again, minority view.

I think it's important to point that out to people like martha, because the MAJORITY of Christians actually believes she will find salvation.

It's the minority that's the loudest, it would seem.
OK, I have a minority view, big deal. I'm only the loudest b/c someone asked for a distinction between Catholicism and Protestantism and I gave it. "Minority" is reletive anyway. Where I come from, Protestantism is the vast majority, but it doesn't change how I feel about salvation one way or the other. I don't care if the majority is Catholic. Anyone can believe whatever they choose to believe no matter how many other people do or do not believe it.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:54 PM   #75
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just an fyi - today on interference.com, eternity and hell are celebrating birthdays. coincidence? i think not.
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