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Old 12-24-2007, 04:34 PM   #16
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It appears this is not an isolated incident. Here is another story of a related but separate (recent) occurrence.

Starbucks Pay It Forward
Associated Press
Friday, December 21st, 2007

MARYSVILLE -- One woman's kindness to a fellow Starbucks customer has resulted in more than a thousand others spreading holiday generosity in Marysville. The regular customer paid for the person in line behind her a few times before, according to The Everett Herald. When she did the same thing Wednesday, though, that good deed set off a chain of 1,013 customers who each paid for the next person's drink. Many even tacked on an extra ten or twenty dollars, and shift manager Sarah Nix says Starbucks Corporation will donate to that money to the company's holiday toy drive. A store employee says the seemingly spontaneous pay-it-forward run ended at 6:20 a.m. today. The name of the iced-tea drinker who started it remains unknown.
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Old 12-26-2007, 02:52 AM   #17
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Re: How do you save the world?

Oooh, I've been watching the first season of Heroes on my Christmas break, so I've been thinking about these kinds of questions already.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Can one person make a difference?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Can you save the world?
Saving the world--whatever that means, whether it's world peace or something else, is beyond the ability of one person to do (unless of course you're talking VERY literally and Maniacal Doomsday Terrorist has his hand on the nuclear button to blow up the planet and you've got a gun pointed at him, but now we're talking comic books. It's the kind of "world-saving" Heroes focuses on. Basically the world is "saved" so that it can continue as it has been). However, I think it's important not to get too hung up on that or to do despair of trying to accomplish great things. I believe each individual on the planet is of great value, and if we can save a single life that value is no less diminished because we couldn't save every life.

For that reason, no, the "rebel of Nazareth" isn't a cop out. At least I don't think it is. The kind of grand, sweeping, type of saving of the whole world that ends all human suffering and ushers in an age of peace and love is beyond the reach of any one individual or group of individuals. We need something or Someone larger than ourselves. And I know, I know, there are lots of people that find such a philsophy unattractive and that's fine. It's just what I believe.

And let me add for good measure, that any follower of the "rebel of Nazareth" should be doing his or her best to alleviate human suffering and usher in peace and love until he shows up to give us the big push we need to get to where we all want to be.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Is there room for everyone?

Yes, but I wonder what the costs might be and if we'd be truly willing to pay them. When we say "room", what are we referring to? 5 star? 3? a rundown motel, or a shack with sufficient food and water? What constitutes "room for everyone?"
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:52 AM   #18
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Yes. I used to be on the Board of Directors of the African Well Fund. That was my way of saving the world.
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:02 PM   #19
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Can one person make a difference?
Not to be cliche but one=all - individually.

Can you save the world?
Yes.

Is there room for everyone?
So far..

Keep in mind the world or earth will thrive.. once mankind has
eliminated itself.
We have to evolve from our violent past, present and future to save humanity.
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:21 PM   #20
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I've been pondering a few things about charity lately. I know my questions are rather cynical, but I'm going to go ahead with them anyways so maybe I can get some clarity.

Just...what good does it do? Every African child you feed will eventually die. And if you help a homeless man to get back on his feet and have a nice life, what is it for? So he can play golf on the weekends? Or, so he can 'pay it forward'? But what does it ultimately add up to?

Also it's apparently better to give than to receive, right? Well, the reason it feels so good is because we see just how happy some person was to receive. So...doesn't that contradict itself? I don't know.
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by AttnKleinkind
I've been pondering a few things about charity lately. I know my questions are rather cynical, but I'm going to go ahead with them anyways so maybe I can get some clarity.

Just...what good does it do? Every African child you feed will eventually die. And if you help a homeless man to get back on his feet and have a nice life, what is it for? So he can play golf on the weekends? Or, so he can 'pay it forward'? But what does it ultimately add up to?

Also it's apparently better to give than to receive, right? Well, the reason it feels so good is because we see just how happy some person was to receive. So...doesn't that contradict itself? I don't know.
Wow...

Well since we're all going to die, let's all stop eating, right?

Since we can't all live a life of playing golf, what the point?

How does that contradict itself?
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:04 PM   #22
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I'm not trying to be an idiot or anything, I'm honestly wondering.

What I mean is, we make people happy by providing them with material things, but then we say it's not material things that make people happy, it's helping others. But the way we make them happy is by giving them material things. I don't know if that clears up what I was trying to get across or not...
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Old 12-26-2007, 11:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by AttnKleinkind
I'm not trying to be an idiot or anything, I'm honestly wondering.

What I mean is, we make people happy by providing them with material things, but then we say it's not material things that make people happy, it's helping others. But the way we make them happy is by giving them material things. I don't know if that clears up what I was trying to get across or not...
So now food or blankets are just material things?
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Old 12-27-2007, 12:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by AttnKleinkind
I don't know if that clears up what I was trying to get across or not...
Material things to starving people?
No..
I now have no idea what you are trying to say.
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Old 12-27-2007, 03:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by AttnKleinkind
I'm not trying to be an idiot or anything, I'm honestly wondering.

What I mean is, we make people happy by providing them with material things, but then we say it's not material things that make people happy, it's helping others. But the way we make them happy is by giving them material things. I don't know if that clears up what I was trying to get across or not...
Questions, cynical or not, don't damage anyone.

I'll give it a shot.

1. I think it is good to give and to receive.
2. Material things beyond a certain point may not (or may)
make people happy. But there are material things you need
to survive. Food, shelter, clothing. You're not trying to make
people happy with these things (though they may be happy
enough to receive them); you're trying to give them a chance.
There is nothing wrong with material things. We are all
material things. I suppose the trouble we get into is when
we value acquisition over people, when the desire for material
things gets out of balance. If I have more than I need, then
maybe I share a little of it with someone who has less than
he/she needs. That's all.
3. I don't know how it all adds up. I just think of it as one step
at a time. It's better for a person to be fed than to starve.
It's better for the vulnerable to be protected than to be
abandoned.
3.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:44 AM   #26
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^What she said.

We're all going to be dead eventually. We know that. But I think we'd all--African kids included--rather that be later than sooner. And we all want to have a meaningful, happy life while we have it. I think that's what all the "difference-making" is all about. As I said earlier, the really Big Picture stuff like the inevitablity of pain and death is outside of our ability to defeat. But the "little stuff"--being able to make the most of the life and health we currently have or can have--that we can do something about.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:45 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


So now food or blankets are just material things?
Aw, come on now, BVS. Take it easy.

I think these questions were posed in good faith. Give 'em a chance.
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:56 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


Aw, come on now, BVS. Take it easy.

I think these questions were posed in good faith. Give 'em a chance.
But am I not allowed to question back with the same cynicism to try and make a point?
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:01 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


But am I not allowed to question back with the same cynicism to try and make a point?
course, you're allowed.

I agree the question is maybe a bit cynical but the attitude didn't seem to be. I just didn't get the sense this was someone trying to bait us or something. We both know there ARE posters who do that, I just wasn't convinced this was one of them. But then maybe you know something about this poster that I don't.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:26 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


course, you're allowed.

I agree the question is maybe a bit cynical but the attitude didn't seem to be. I just didn't get the sense this was someone trying to bait us or something.
Fair enough. I don't know if this poster was baiting either. I've just found sometimes with questions like this the point is made better by turning around the question rather than giving a very detailed answer.

This line of questioning from this posters original post would seem fairly obvious to most. You feed children to prolong their lives that hopefully they find a way out of the cycle, you don't stop feeding them because, well they will all eventually die, that seems fairly obvious to most. But because the line of question comes from such a cynical place, I don't think a straight forward answer is really going to help. But if you turn their questioning around so they realize where their questioning is coming from sometimes they will see the flaw in their questioning.
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