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Old 09-29-2004, 08:15 AM   #16
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So the long term solution goes to the oposite direction than the short term solution...
...seems like a decision, either short term or long term success
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:20 AM   #17
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I think that Love is the ultimate answer.

I also think Love is a real option. Love is not an idealistic concept, it is everyday life that should be lived.

As to the original question, how to dismantle an atomic bomb:

The leading politicians of nations who have or want to have a nuclear bomb, use or would use this weapon to frighten other states. Nuclear weapons are a way of scaring other nations off. It is like a sign of "Hey, you can´t just overrun my nation, because if you do, I could..."

And actually we can also see this system is working. It is a policy of fear.

The Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty is a cornerstone of the international regime on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and an essential foundation for the pursuit of nuclear disarmament. Its total ban of any nuclear weapon test explosion aims to constrain the development and qualitative improvement of nuclear weapons and end the development of advanced new types of these weapons.

Nuclear weapons are difficult, practically impossible, to use without testing them before.

Since I do not believe in the strategy of "scaring other nations" in order to have an additional instrument for "homeland security", I think one practical, possible way for "dismantling" is the way of not producing new ones, not testing them. nor developing them.

If, for the next 100 years, no nation would test its nuclear bombs, I can guarantee you that also, no nation would use them anymore - it´s just too dangerous for the very own nation. The nuclear weapons would all be destroyed and buried somewhere, and the world would be free of them.

On the other hand, the knowledge of how to build them and maintain their use, would still be there.
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:23 AM   #18
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Thought I would go to straight to the "horse's mouth" for this one - quotes from Albert Eistein concerning, in part, how to dismantle an atomic bomb

"Nothing that I can do will change the structure of the universe.
But maybe, by raising my voice, I can help in the greatest of all causes - goodwill among men and peace on earth."

"The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking...
the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind.
If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."

The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one.

"Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding."

"The real problem is in the hearts and minds of men. It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man."


and finally to prove that Al was indeed freakishly cool -

"If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music.
I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music. ... I get most joy in life out of music."
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Old 09-29-2004, 08:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
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So the long term solution goes to the oposite direction than the short term solution...
...seems like a decision, either short term or long term success
Consider it tough love.
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Old 09-29-2004, 12:11 PM   #20
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
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Old 09-29-2004, 05:41 PM   #21
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I would really like to believe that Love is the solution, I really would. I mean, it all sounds so nice and lovely.

But I don't think its true. No, progress in history has only ever seemed to occur when people have been, well, afraid. People have only really cooperated when they realised that they were all up the creek without a paddle and on the same leaking boat. Essentially, people only ever came together when they had to save their own skins.

The best way to get a mass of people to do something, as it has been seen in history, isn't to get to love each other, but to fear that great external force that is or will oppress them.

Its not the type of message that sells in rock songs and its not the type of ending one likes to read in novels, but I do actually believe its true.

Well, at least those are my cynical two cents.

Ant.

P.S - Oh, and to answer the question, well, the only way we're ever going to properly dismantle all atomic bombs, if history is anything to go by, is to blow each other to bits and to hope that the remaining few will have better sense than we did. Hopefully, the whole blowing each other to bits thing can be diverted, but not before the threat of it has been particularly emininent. Things are going to get worse before they get better.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:10 PM   #22
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That´s a nice sense of reality, Anthony, considering that the human race is the worst thing that ever happened to this planet. But I still know that Love is the only solution. Open your eyes, and you will see. Or read Ernesto Cardenal, if you will. It is about the Love you can give in every moment of your life.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:14 PM   #23
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Hey! I happen to be part of the human race
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:15 PM   #24
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I must confess I haven't read Ernesto Cardenal. Anything in particular you reccomend? I'll be sure to look him up.

I do apologise for the cynical view, hiphop, but the truth is that I believe in myself and my ability to love and be loved. I don't think there's a problem with 'me' giving love, but I'm not the one with the big decisions to make.

Love is the solution, its just too high up in the clouds when it comes to solving things like dismantling an atomic bomb.

I dunno, I'll likely change my views when I fall in love, again.

Ant.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:27 PM   #25
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I think nurse chrissi"s quotes from Albert Einstein are really the MOST IMPORTANT contributions made so far in this discussion.

I think we should listen to and follow the advice of the father of atomic energy - and he's saying almost the same as U2 is saying.

You dismantle the atomic bomb the same way that you rid the world of all of its hatreds, jealousies, conflicts - with LOVE.

Because, in the end, LOVE IS TRULY ALL YOU NEED.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:30 PM   #26
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I agree with the de-escalation thing. 'Bigger picture' people, not literal!

Picture earth with a big fuse sticking out the side of it, and the fuse is lit. The fuse is hate/fear/ignorance etc. How do you dismantle that?

I mean, the first stage of dismantling an atomic bomb is to decide that you want to dismantle it in the first place, ie you have no need for it.

Fear/hate/ignorance. First things that have to go.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:37 PM   #27
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And I think looking back through history and saying "Ho, hum, the world has always been the same, always will, it'll never happen" is bullshit. The world changes dramaticaly all the time. There will obviously always be hate, fear and ignorance. There will always be people who are pure evil, and from time to time they will gain great power. However, the world is closer now than ever before. Think even of our parents generation. Did they spend all day happily chatting to people from all corners of the globe? Do you think it's easy to convince people to hate another person simply because of where they are from? That was easy even 50 years ago. Things change. Understanding and communication will only grow. 100% 'peace on earth' will never, ever, ever, ever, ever happen. But 95% is obtainable.
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Old 09-29-2004, 07:45 PM   #28
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Peace on earth is attainable when humanity wakes up to the fact that our fates are entwined and we must do away with superstition. This will happen when every human being is allowed to live free with dignity.
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Old 09-30-2004, 04:16 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Anthony
I must confess I haven't read Ernesto Cardenal. Anything in particular you reccomend? I'll be sure to look him up.

I do apologise for the cynical view, hiphop, but the truth is that I believe in myself and my ability to love and be loved. I don't think there's a problem with 'me' giving love, but I'm not the one with the big decisions to make.

Love is the solution, its just too high up in the clouds when it comes to solving things like dismantling an atomic bomb.

I dunno, I'll likely change my views when I fall in love, again.

Ant.
If you knew German, I would recommend a book called "Meditation and Resistance", but it seems it hasn´t been published in English. So I can offer you one internet source in English:

http://www.katabasis.co.uk/pnewtime.html

Other translated examples of his work include:
Marilyn Monroe and Other Poems (1965)
The Psalms of Struggle and Liberation (1967)
To Live is to Love (1970)
In Cuba (1974)
Apocalypse and Other Poems (1977)
Nicaraguan New Time (1988)
Cosmic Canticle (1993)

Don´t apologize for your cynical view, you´re perfectly right in what you say. When you say you believe in yourself and your ability to Love and to be Loved, that is exactly what I mean by describing Love as the only solution. Even if you may think that this is just a little contribution to the well-being of this planet, I can assure you it is a big one, because Love has the ability to multiply itself through space and rhythm.

Therefore, I do not think Love is "too high up in the clouds when it comes to solving things like dismantling an atomic bomb". It is the solution, because if everyone would be able to put Love at the first place of his or her life, to focus on giving and recieving Love, people would neither care about atomic bombs.

With Love, fear is not important.

When Love is the only thing you focus upon, profit is not important.

When Love is the only thing you focus upon, suppression and exploitation will not be important.

The principle of capitalism is to always create new differences, in order to "equal" them out, and profit by doing so. With Love, everyone is equal - no need for a class system.

If you know about Love, you will not permit inequalities, you will not permit war, and you can feel the pain and blood of the victims of our cruelties.

With Love, no one needs to be more powerful than his neighbor. This is the reason why Love has to rise. This is the reason why everyone who has a pure heart should be working, each and every day, for the arrival of the kingdom of Love. Love is revolution.

With Love, there will be true development of the human race. This is how to dismantle an atomic bomb.

Believe in Love.

Share all your Love, every day and every moment of your time.
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Old 10-01-2004, 12:24 AM   #30
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The answer is God.

But the Bible clearly states there will be no peace on earth until Jesus returns to take his people back to Heaven. So things such as a peaceful, warless world are unrealistic and overly idealistic. If America was to dismatle all of our bombs right now (in the name of love... or whatever you want to call it) we'd be blown to bits within days. People hate, and that's not going to change wheather we like it or not. Idealism is good at times, but foolish at other times.

If you're not a christian I don't expect you to agree with me of course.
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