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Old 03-24-2004, 08:58 PM   #61
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Originally posted by verte76
I'm not sure it's any more possible to stop terrorism than it is possible to stop crime. Might terrorism be defined, at least partially, as the worst of crimes, or the ultimate crime? If so, we're stuck with it as we are stuck with evil. Perhaps we're not necessarily stuck with Al Qaeda, but it seems to me we are stuck with terrorism per se. Damn.
This is probably closer to the truth and victory is defined as how well we manage terrorism/crime.
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Old 03-25-2004, 11:19 AM   #62
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Originally posted by anitram


What about neither...yet another possibility for complication.
obviously john lennon has the ultimate solution... unfortunatly what he talked about in imagine will never happen.
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:12 PM   #63
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


obviously john lennon has the ultimate solution... unfortunatly what he talked about in imagine will never happen.
Yeah, "Imagine" is only an ideal. It's not possible for it to be reality.
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:57 PM   #64
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terrorism cannot be defeated.. it can only be CRUSHED
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:06 PM   #65
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
That's part of the problem - are God's children the children of Isaac or Ishmael?
Both.
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:07 PM   #66
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Originally posted by anitram


What about neither...yet another possibility for complication.
No complication at all...we are ALL God's children.
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Old 03-25-2004, 02:27 PM   #67
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Originally posted by AcrobatMan
terrorism cannot be defeated.. it can only be CRUSHED
And how do you suggest we go about this?
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Old 03-25-2004, 02:27 PM   #68
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No complication at all...we are ALL God's children.
In your opinion.
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Old 03-25-2004, 09:44 PM   #69
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:10 PM   #70
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


In your opinion.
exactly... just look at the news out of iraq today... one of the most influential shiite clerics calling 9/11 a "miracle from God." we may believe that we are all God's children, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world does.
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:32 PM   #71
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In your opinion.
Are you suggesting that only some of us are God's children?
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Old 03-27-2004, 05:53 PM   #72
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A heinous crime by Israel

Muslehuddin Ahmad

The assassination of Sk. Ahmed Yasin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, by Israel under the direct order of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was not only a heinous crime, but also a grave mistake on the part of Israel as this has inflamed the entire Palestinian and Arab community and in a way the entire Muslim world. The murder of 67- year old wheel chair bound crippled Hamas leader Yasin has been condemned by the Arabs and the world community except America, the protector of Israel. Hamas leaders said this killing has "opened the gates of Hell". It's all war, war and war chanted by Hamas members and other Palestinians. One gets baffled by the extreme stupidity of Sharon government that killing of the leader they will stop terrorism. Of course, it's not just stupidity murder is in Sharon's blood. It's again Sabra refugee camp where this assassination was carried out and later in a press interview Sharon thanked Israeli army for their heroic work. This reminds the world of the mass -murder Sharon ordered in Sabra and Shatilla during 80s. He is calling Arafat and others murderers; what is he?

This assassination may have let loose the hell and Israelis would now be in extreme danger. There is extreme anger everywhere in the Arab world. There will undoubtedly be more suicide bombings to avenge the death of Hamas leader Sk.Yasin. Already hundreds of Hamas members expressed their readiness to sacrifice their lives to take full revenge of this murder. Because of Sharon the Israelis will be the sufferers; now innocent Israelis would find themselves as targets. Sharon is the curse for the Israeli people.


Despite deep grief and anger in the Arab world and particularly in the Palestinian territories, Arafat has called for calm and asked both sides not to kill innocent civilians. According to him, the public on both sides have had enough sufferings; it's time to stop it. Unfortunately, Arafat appears to be the next in Sharon murder list. One would not be surprised if Sharon carries it out suddenly. Sharon knows there will be world condemnation if Arafat is killed but would this affect Sharon and his government? No, as long as Bush administration is there to support to him. Bush administration has already vetoed the UNSC resolution that could officially condemn Sk Yasin 's killing. In the UNSC there were 11 votes in favor, 3 (UK, Germany, and Romania) abstained and USA cast the negative vote. In other words, American Admin vetoed the resolution. This shows the amount of support USA gives to Israel even on Israel's extra-judicial killings. How could USA be the impartial party in the peace process?


As one could see, Sharon ordered this assassination to divert the attention of the Israeli public from the misdeeds he committed during his election by allegedly taking unlawful funds through his son. Sharon has been under police interrogation for the last couple of weeks. Polls show that his Political support has substantially gone down, Indeed, Israelis have unfortunately committed the political blunder by electing Sharon and his extreme rightist Likud party to power. And they have been paying the price for this for the last three years; they already buried hundreds of Israeli dead and as it seems more would come after this assassination. Sharon came to power with the promise to make Israel safe. Indeed, the Israelis are terribly unsafe today under Sharon as unfortunately the Americans are under President Bush.


Indeed, Sharon got undue support from President Bush. He already visited White House seven or eight times and going to have another shortly. Quartet's Road Map envisages Palestinian State by 2005. Bush Administration must understand that it is Sharon who opposed the Road Map and asked for over 22 amendments though Palestinians accepted it without any change. Surprisingly, Bush Administration never considered the idea of asking Arafat to visit the White House though President Clinton did it while in office. If President Clinton considered Arafat a terrorist he would have never invited him to the White House. Arafat's visit created a lot of good will for America and it was generally felt that if Clinton had a little more time in hand he could have succeeded in renegotiating the deal for some form of peace. But Bush Admin never tried this.

The worst part was that Bush Admin fell into the trap of Sharon a mass murderer- and went along with Sharon in considering Arafat a terrorist. This is the failure of the present American Administration which added to the tension that already existed in the area. Thereafter, the Iraq invasion made the situation still worse. America indeed lost its credibility to act as the impartial broker and hence the present volatile situation and consequent extreme terrorism -killings and counter killings. Unfortunately, from Israeli side this is state terrorism as the killings are done by the state machinery and under the orders of the head of the government but from Palestinian side this is done by the people under occupation, terrible oppression and deprivation.

The world must understand this difference before they declare some one as terrorist. If the Jewish state is not a terrorist state, then Palestinians are also not terrorists. If Bush Administration insists on declaring Hamas as a terrorist organization, then it should also accept that Israel is a terrorist state. That will bring real balance in the UNSC debates and consequent resolutions. The argument that Israel only retaliates to the suicide bombings is not correct. Indeed, the wrongs were committed first by Israel as it did not end the occupation despite scores of UN resolutions in favor of ending occupation

Even Hamas which is condemned for its suicide bombings, agreed to stop all suicide bombings if Israel agreed to withdraw its forces from occupied territories. Indeed, Sk Yasin openly said that Hamas would stop all bombings once Israeli forces are withdrawn to pre-1967 borders. Israel never agreed to this. So it's no use harping on the same jargon terrorism. The world must find out the real causes of terrorism that leads to deaths of innocent civilians and also the deaths of the suicide bombers themselves. Life is the most precious thing for any one. It's not a fun to sacrifice one's life. One does it under extreme situations. Nobody is going to condone suicide bombings and killings of innocent lives, but it's high time for the US and the international community to find out the causes, the truth behind such ruthless and devastating actions, and remove those. Terrorism can not be removed by military actions; this has to be done by removing the causes. That's the only way to move towards some form of peace.

Muslehuddin Ahmad is the former Secretary & Ambassador and presently the founder Vice Chancellor of Presidency University. He is also the former VC of North South University.
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Old 03-27-2004, 05:57 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Are you suggesting that only some of us are God's children?
perhaps it would be a healthy idea to just ask someone what exactly they mean instead of suggesting everything that it could mean
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Old 03-27-2004, 05:59 PM   #74
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that counts for everyone btw
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Old 03-27-2004, 06:28 PM   #75
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It really puzzles me how the one liberal democracy in the Middle East is constantly the only one charged with violating human rights. Ahmad, in other articles, never once cites Syria, Libya, or Egypt for the failure of the governments to provide human rights for their people. Also, it is naive to believe that the militant Palestinians only want the West Bank back. A thorough study of their literature will show that they believe the whole land of Israel belongs to them. The "occupation" does not just mean the Israeli presence in Gaza and the West Bank but also the presence of the Jews in the land of Israel. Also, the Israeli presence in the West Bank since 67 came about for one reason-survival. Israel fought three wars-1948, 1967, and 1973 for its survival. Did it initiate these attacks? No. Also, the assumption that since Clinton's invitation of Arafat meant that he was not a terrorist is laughable. Not only was he a terrorist but the head of the PLO. What are the goals of the PLO? The charter states it is the elimination of the Zionist presence in Palestine. To the PLO, Palestine does not just mean the West Bank and Gaza, but also the land of Israel. Also, take a look at the PLO badge or insignia- there is an outline of the whole land of Israel. Also, the charter states the the use of violence is the strategic goal and not merely a tactical one.
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