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Old 03-23-2004, 11:32 PM   #31
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ergh

this question frustrates me... people who think they can answer this question correctly make me shake my head and laugh. sorry, i don't mean to offend, i really don't... terrorism is hate, hate cannot be stopped, not through education, not through employment, and not through leadership. there is no way to stop hate because it's just human nature... it is in our nature to hate as well as love...



maybe i'm just a big cucu.. coo coo... kuco... kuku... koo-koo... whatever.. maybe i'm just a big

peace, mirrorball2606

*one cannot live on marshmallow chicks alone*

"like hell i can't!"
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Old 03-23-2004, 11:35 PM   #32
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Old 03-23-2004, 11:44 PM   #33
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Re: ergh

Quote:
Originally posted by Mirrorball2606
this question frustrates me... people who think they can answer this question correctly make me shake my head and laugh. sorry, i don't mean to offend, i really don't... terrorism is hate, hate cannot be stopped, not through education, not through employment, and not through leadership. there is no way to stop hate because it's just human nature... it is in our nature to hate as well as love...



maybe i'm just a big cucu.. coo coo... kuco... kuku... koo-koo... whatever.. maybe i'm just a big

peace, mirrorball2606

*one cannot live on marshmallow chicks alone*

"like hell i can't!"
I'm not sure where you're from but you can see a big change that education made here in the U.S. on racial issues. Yes we still have a large imbalance and we still have a lot of hate. But the proportion of the population that are members of hate organizations has reduced significantly in the past 30 years. The numbers of members in organizations such as these has moved to primarily uneducated areas of the country. Not that it doesn't exist in highly educated areas, but the numbers are significantly different. I think education plays a huge role. We aren't born to hate. Think about it, anything you hate, dislike, don't belive in came from your background.

If you never knew that a gay man, a Jew, a Muslim, or a Christian were different than you and should be punished because of it, you would never try and punish this person.
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:47 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
As for the "Holy Man" shall I list the number of deaths he is linked to? Israel did the right thing. I only fault them for not hitting all of Hamas leadership at once.
There is not a chance on Earth that assassinating Sheikh Yassin is going to decrease attacks against Israel. Killing a 67-year-old blind man in a wheelchair, killing seven other people and injuring more than 15 will breed nothing but resentment towards Israel, regardless of Sheik Yassin's actions. It's why the assassination was immediately condemned by so many world leaders: it's not going to stop attacks against Israel.
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:01 AM   #35
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Originally posted by STING2
Foreign aid and economic development of the rest of the world is very important. Globalization and Free Trade are aiding in this process.
No, globalisation and free trade as they are currently defined are doing the very opposite of what you claim. Smashing open develping countries markets, flooding them with cheap imports, bankrupting local industries might make the free trade advocates happy but it certainly doesn't help anyone in those developing countries.

When the West talks about free trade what we actually mean is maintaining our own protectionist policies while forcing developing markets to open their markets, benefiting only the Western multinationals.
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:59 AM   #36
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Dread, are you serious about cutting off foreign aid to these countries which home and/or breed terrorist organisations? If you were serious in these suggestions are you implying they (these countries) can stop it then? By merely tightening the purse strings, they will do what the UN and all the troops over there currently are failing to do?
You would also see it as a reasonable measure to lead to the suffering of the majority (by decreasing aid) because of the actions of a minority?
Interesting.
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Old 03-24-2004, 07:22 AM   #37
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Originally posted by Angela Harlem
Dread, are you serious about cutting off foreign aid to these countries which home and/or breed terrorist organisations? If you were serious in these suggestions are you implying they (these countries) can stop it then? By merely tightening the purse strings, they will do what the UN and all the troops over there currently are failing to do?
You would also see it as a reasonable measure to lead to the suffering of the majority (by decreasing aid) because of the actions of a minority?
Interesting.
No, I am not certain that that is what I would do. I am in a very disappointed mood. I see our foreign aid for AIDS relief is going to get cut again. But I also see us shipping AID to the Middle East and EGYPT and I know from my reading what is being taught there. We are STATAN. We are the ENEMY. it is taught in the schools and in the mosques. Why, when we are clearly not liked, should we continue to send money that does us not one bit of political good. Take all the money and give it to AIDS relief and to bring water to places that need it. There maybe we havea chance at making future friends and relationships while saving lives. Currently we give money to people who would prefer putting a fucking bomb on a bus and blowing up kids, mothers, dathers, grandfathers......ect.

You are catching me in one of theses moods.
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Old 03-24-2004, 07:26 AM   #38
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I do not believe that what happened to the "Holy Man" is called assasination. I believe it is called justice. I believe that it is fair game in War to target the son of a bitch that was responsisble for:

[Q]Sheikh Yassin’s Mass-Murder Record

Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, leader of the Moslem Hamas terrorist organization who was killed yesterday in a daring Israeli missile attack, oversaw a total of 425 attacks - including the Park Hotel Seder massacre - that killed 377 Israelis and wounded 2,076.

Among the worst Hamas attacks in the past 3.5 years of the Palestinian Authority-initiated Oslo War were the following ten, which ended the lives of a total of 186 people:

June 1, 2001 - Dolphinarium in Tel Aviv, 21 killed - mostly new-immigrant teenagers from the former Soviet Union

Aug. 9, 2001 - Sbarro’s Pizzeria in Jerusalem, 15 killed, including the parents and three children of the Schijveschuurder family

Dec. 2, 2001 - Haifa bus, 15 killed

March 27, 2002 - Park Hotel in the midst of the Passover Seder, 30 killed, including six husband-and-wife couples

March 31, 2002 - Matza Restaurant in Haifa, 15 killed, including two sets of a father and two children

May 7, 2002 - Rishon Letzion hall, 16 killed

June 18, 2002 - #32 bus from Gilo, Jerusalem, 19 killed

March 5, 2003 - #37 bus in Haifa, 15 killed

June 11, 2003 - #14 bus, Jerusalem, 17 killed

Aug. 19, 2003 - #2 bus from Western Wall, 23 killed, including a mother and baby; father and son; and four other children[/Q]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=59918


To call this an assassination is a fucking insult to assasinated people everywhere. I shed a tear for the fact that they could not get every last leaderhip member.

If it were Osama, I would be celebrating with a beer.
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Old 03-24-2004, 07:34 AM   #39
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I see your point. I agree. I guess its the liberal part of me which finds it difficult to assign blame and responsibility on a national level. Aspects of it can be, no doubt. But groups never represent what an entire nation believe in.

I agree totally on the second post of yours.
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Old 03-24-2004, 08:13 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
To call this an assassination is a fucking insult to assasinated people everywhere. I shed a tear for the fact that they could not get every last leaderhip member.
Assassination simply means the murder of a political or religious leader. Firing missiles into Gaza with the express purpose of killing Sheikh Yassin was an assassination. Calling it such is not a comment on Yassin's politics or a judgement of Israel's decision, it is merely a description of events.
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Old 03-24-2004, 08:58 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Assassination simply means the murder of a political or religious leader.
That's Dread's point. This is more the killing of a criminal leader than a political/religious one.
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Old 03-24-2004, 10:36 AM   #42
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Yassin was a and I'm not about to defend him. However, this makes me nervous about "revenge" attacks in Israel. I have a friend in Tel Aviv, so I get nervous about Israel's security. I get nervous as hell when they do something that is risky for their security. This was one such incident, I'm afraid.
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Old 03-24-2004, 10:50 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


No, globalisation and free trade as they are currently defined are doing the very opposite of what you claim. Smashing open develping countries markets, flooding them with cheap imports, bankrupting local industries might make the free trade advocates happy but it certainly doesn't help anyone in those developing countries.

When the West talks about free trade what we actually mean is maintaining our own protectionist policies while forcing developing markets to open their markets, benefiting only the Western multinationals.
Tawain, Singapore, South Korea, China, Maylasia, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Slovenia, Croatia, Mexico are all countries that are countries have benefited or are starting to benefit from Globalization and Free Trade. Many companies are moving to developing countries and employing workers there which reduces unemployment there adding more disposable income to the population which helps the countries economy.

Guess which city in which country gave U2 its highest GROSS figure for the POPMART TOUR? It was not London, New York or any of the usual suspects. Nope, it was Buenos Aires, Argentina. That would have been unthinkable years ago.

The European Union continues to grow and is another example of the success of Free Trade and Globalization. I support the continued growth of Free Trade and Globalization because it is helping to bring the world closer together in a more properous state. Thats not to say there are not many problems and difficulties, there are. But every day conditions in many third world countries continued to improve and people have more money to spend as well. I expect U2 to to take advantage of some of these new markets on the next tour just as they did on POPMART.
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Yassin was a and I'm not about to defend him. However, this makes me nervous about "revenge" attacks in Israel. I have a friend in Tel Aviv, so I get nervous about Israel's security. I get nervous as hell when they do something that is risky for their security. This was one such incident, I'm afraid.
I totally agree with you. I’m not at all saddened by his death, but the first thought I had when I heard about the assassination was “stupid, stupid, stupid”. For the first time for a while now I felt a certain level of anxiety. It felt like all hell will brake loose.
.
He was killed at 5 am. Only 3-4 hours later a Palestinian attacked civilians with an axe In Ramat-Gan (a city near Tel-Aviv). Later that evening, an Arab Israeli got on a buss and started stabbing passengers. It’s the same buss my mother takes every morning on her way to work.

He was admired in the Arab world. His death will not only cause the terrorists organizations to commit terror attacks, but it will trigger individuals to carry out attacks as well.

Killing leaders won’t do much good. Perhaps the key is in education. But there will always be those who’ll believe in extreme ideologies no matter what the world will try to do.
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:57 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
This is more the killing of a criminal leader than a political/religious one.
No matter how abhorrent people might find Hamas' ideology, they are a political/religious group and therefore the murder of their leaders is an assassination.

That a group uses violence to achieve its aims does not mean they are not a political group. The IRA are clearly a political movement but they have in the past used violence to achieve their aims. The same is true of ETA: their demands are political and some of their tactics are violent.
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