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Old 02-25-2005, 03:56 PM   #16
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Originally posted by speedracer
Well, weapons are used to *prevent* crimes from happening every now and then.

I remember trying to research this for a paper once, but the estimates I got for number of crimes prevented by the use of firearms were so wildly divergent that it was hard to extract any useful information from them.
the NRA spikes the data

we only need look at societies where guns are scarce

looking at DC or NYC where guns are controled but easily available is worthless
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


the NRA spikes the data

we only need look at societies where guns are scarce

looking at DC or NYC where guns are controled but easily available is worthless
Well, of course a scarcity of guns will lead to a scarcity of gun-related crimes.

Do restrictions on gun ownership lead to spikes in violent crimes not involving guns? I have no idea.
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:13 PM   #18
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looking at DC or NYC where guns are controled but easily available is worthless
Doesn't that say something about the effectiveness of "control"?
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:16 PM   #19
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What is the issue? Has there been a massive increase in murders involving "assault weapons" since the ban expired? Is this case remarkable in any particular way ~ man with grudge opens fire against person he must hate killing them and another. He deserves to be put away for a very long time but how should this one case illustrate anything?
> When did he get the gun?
> Where did he get the gun?
What does it matter? Why should someone who's capable of snapping(which is anyone) have acess to a weapon that can take out several people less than a minute? And this is a great example of why.
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from the link BVS posteddoesn't that make them legal?
Well it matters if it's modified or not.
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:27 PM   #20
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Fine then I guess that a total firearms ban with tight control would work in reducing the violent crime rate?
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:38 PM   #21
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Fine then I guess that a total firearms ban with tight control would work in reducing the violent crime rate?
It would reduce murder rate eventually. Eventually a ban would eliminate the black market. It would take awhile but yes it would reduce the murder rate.
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:43 PM   #22
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Hasn't happened here, we have a snazzy ban ~ take the weapons away from farmers and the like and out violent crime rate has remained more or less constant. US is a different country with a different history and different socio-economic conditions but a total ban would not eliminate illegal weapons ~ they are always going to be smuggled in and the people that use them are going to get their hands on them.

Tighter regulations and technology on legal firearms may be a good idea (biometric scanners etc.) but bans have little effect other than robbing citizens of the ability to posess weapons for sport or self-defence.
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Old 02-25-2005, 04:53 PM   #23
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What type and how long has your ban been in place?

I don't believe in a total ban. But if you ban certain weapons those that are used primarily in crimes and have no hunting uses. Where will the black market get their guns? Once the ban is in place it will take awhile but eventually the supply won't be there. For where do the guns in the black market come from but from the major manufacturers. Yes maybe an insurgent of guns will come from out of the country, but how many gang members do you think have contacts with arms dealers?
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:07 PM   #24
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A ban on all automatic and semi-automatic firearms , pump action shotguns and a strict licencing system ~ they had an entire buyback scheme but who went through that? the honest citizens so basically the crims kept their illegal weapons and those with an interest in supplying the demand for illegal weapons kept on doing it. There is still the same ammount of gun violence in Australia today as there was before the ban and this violence still occurs among the same sections of the community, and then you also have the old fashioned ways where people just stab eachother to death. The best antidote to gun violence is a responsible population with rights, unfortunately in every society there is poverty and crime and that is where the problems come from.
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:10 PM   #25
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America is the only place where bans don't work. Ok, that might be a bit of a stretch, but seriously consider my proposition.
In America we like our smugglers - perhaps this is because our founding fathers were such.
If we were serious about riding this country of assault weapons we could. Our government doesn't have the stomach to honestly oppose the NRA.
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:12 PM   #26
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One other point I'd like to make. I've noticed that many people who support people owning guns for self-protection are against other nations having nuclear weapons. By their logic wouldn't our world be safer if everyone had a nuke?
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:13 PM   #27
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If you can't stop illegal immigrants and drugs from getting into a country how can people expect guns to be kept out.

As far as the proposition of nuclear weapons ~ the answer is no. A licenced gun owner without a criminal record or history of mental illness who has to go through a whole manner of checks with a cooling off period is entiely different to a nuclear weapon that can kill millions in the hands of every person.
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:22 PM   #28
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If you can't stop illegal immigrants and drugs from getting into a country how can people expect guns to be kept out.
What you don't have faith in our "Homeland Security"?
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:23 PM   #29
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Not one bit, no country can ever be 100% secure and the US lags way back from that.
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Old 02-25-2005, 05:29 PM   #30
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But the theory is that criminals won't attack you if you can hurt them. Take that the world arena.
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