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Old 11-13-2001, 04:22 PM   #31
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I find the notion that conservative people who are fans of U2 are "hypocritical" to be quite simplistic. It's like saying I can't love my husband because he voted for one person for president and I voted for another. The world is more compex than this. There's a bigger picture.

As a politically conservative person, I always loved U2 because I was intrigued with their point of view, which challenged my own. I'm not that interested in discussing issues with likeminded people. Instead, I prefer people that make me think. That's why when Bono was on stage trying to link the situation in Afghanistan to that in Africa, I din't cheer nor did I jeer. Instead, my mind was busy trying to make the connection between the two issues.

When Bono takes on an issue he does so wholeheartedly. I respect that even if I don't agree with the issue. It's his commitment to his causes that I find attractive. I don't necessarily have to agree with his causes though.

Finally, there's the music. I don't have to believe in welfare to believe that we have to "carry each other." In most cases the lyrics aren't specific to a particular political agenda (notable exceptions being Bullet and Mothers, as previously mentioned). In my opinion, the music transcends politics. The lyrics tend to speak to universal feelings.

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

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Old 11-13-2001, 04:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by arturod:
I'm pretty left wing, but I know some people how are very politically conservative and are U2 fans. I just find this hypocritical and paradoxical. It seems you shouldn't be able to be Republican and be a U2 fan, given the band's and Bono's stances on many of the issues. How can you people live with these contradictions? Just wondering.
arturod, I'm not talking about you now, but this question kind of reminds me about how ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED a lot of "intellectual-types" are that another intelligent being can have conservative political views. (I'm a student at Harvard, so I know this by experience.)
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Old 11-13-2001, 04:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by notiti:


-Bush has stated that he is opposed to making Gay marriages legal. U2 "belive[s] in love."
The list goes on and on. Now I am not saying that conservatives can't like U2, I'm sure that the religous link is a big draw for many conservatives, I'm just going to contend that I'm not sure those who are politically conservative nessisarily understand alot of what U2 is trying to say.
Hmmm. Did U2 ever say that they support gay marriage or are you just interpreting "we believe in love" that way. I am curious, because I don't know.

Also, if you argue that conservatives don't understand U2's message based on their political views, I think you can easily argue that one can't understand U2's message either, without understanding their religious views. I mean, when Bono yells "Judas" at the beginning of Unil the End of the World, I just don't think that people from a non-Christian background could really understand the song...

So I think that it goes both ways .
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Old 11-13-2001, 04:29 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ody:
Hmmm. Did U2 ever say that they support gay marriage or are you just interpreting "we believe in love" that way. I am curious, because I don't know.

Also, if you argue that conservatives don't understand U2's message based on their political views, I think you can easily argue that one can't understand U2's message either, without understanding their religious views. I mean, when Bono yells "Judas" at the beginning of Unil the End of the World, I just don't think that people from a non-Christian background could really understand the song...

So I think that it goes both ways .
i'm confused. are you saying a liberal can't be a christian, too? i'm just not sure how it goes both ways.



[This message has been edited by Screaming Flower (edited 11-13-2001).]
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Old 11-13-2001, 04:37 PM   #35
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Originally posted by Screaming Flower:
i'm confused. are you saying a liberal can't be a christian, too? i'm just not sure how it goes both ways.

[This message has been edited by Screaming Flower (edited 11-13-2001).]
No, not really. While I do think that the majority of Christians are conservatives, I certainly don't think that they are mutually exclusive. I would be very surprised though, if the majority of liberals who find conservative U2 fans inconsistant, turn out to be Christians. Because liberal Christians would know that many if not most Christians are conservative.

What I mean when I say that it goes both ways is this: if liberals believe conservatives don't understand, and should be influenced by U2's songs, they might also find that U2's religious message influences their politics, and in a way that it is not "liberal". For example, faith-based initiatives. But, on the other hand, I can also see how U2's religious views support "liberal" issues like gun-control for example.

Maybe I just became more confusing...


[This message has been edited by Ody (edited 11-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ody (edited 11-13-2001).]
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Old 11-13-2001, 04:42 PM   #36
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If you think this is a legitimate question than you must ask why white kids like a hip hop band like Public Enemy since they are pretty anti white and wait a minute, you would have to ask Mr. Bono that since he is a big fan of Public Enemy and brought them on for Zoo TV and named their album "Fear of a Black Planet" as one of the best albums a few years back. Wouldn't you have to ask that question too? Bono, if you are correct, is contridicting himself too.

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Old 11-13-2001, 05:29 PM   #37
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Hmm...

How I see Bono:

Best described as a liberal politically and a liberal Christian. However, he's not a fanatic when it comes to his beliefs. I think, perhaps, that there is this belief on this board that a "liberal" or a "conservative" must be extremist, and I will admit that I am sometimes guilty of such blanket categorization. Regardless, I think it's safe to say that Bono is a leftist with moderate leanings; not a bad spot to be in, in my opinion.

Religion-wise, he's equally non-fanatical. Most of us know the story of how, during the "Boy" era, three members of U2 (sans Adam) were involved in a fundamentalist Christian organization that they fervently believed in. However, this same group then dictated to them that one could not be in a rock band to be "a true believer." To me, this is the birth of the U2 I grew to love. Bono, rather than rejecting religion, rejected his obstacle to his faith, which was institutional religion in itself. There are other means to express one's faith than through conformity to someone's strict definitions of salvation, and I believe that U2 has done exactly such a thing.

One thing noticeable in the last few years is Bono's association with the Pope and, lately, the fact that he wears a rosary around his neck. However, Bono, when asked about Catholicism, said that he agreed with much of it, but disagreed, essentially, with it's stricter social views. The fact that he does wear a rosary around his neck pretty much shows he hasn't converted--it's considered sacriligious to wear the rosary around your neck--but that he admires much of the tenets. Does Bono support gay marriage? He's never really stated I don't think, but, considering much of his previous statements, I think he would support it; but it's just a guess.

As with politics, I personally do not believe he likes the Republicans politically, but probably gets along with them as people. Plus--and it's true--how would fighting with the Republicans have helped to drop the debt? It wouldn't have at all, and, especially since he's not an American, he was smart to stray away from partisan politics. Perhaps he has learned that more good can come from working within than shouting and waving white flags, and mocking the president on Zoo TV.

Regardless, to answer the topic question, it's simple as to why conservatives can be U2 fans. The music itself has very upstanding tones to most of it. Plus, some people just don't care about all the politics involved and just like the music.

But perhaps I see it this way from the same perspective as Ody's statement about liberal Christians and inconsistency. I think it's a perspective that Bono perhaps knows all too well himself.

Melon

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Old 11-13-2001, 05:47 PM   #38
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I just cant believe some of you are saying that if there is one aspect of U2 you dont agree with then you cant be a huge fan???

I remember seeing an interview with Bono back in 1987 during the Joshua Tree tour. The reporter asked him if it bothered him that alot of the new audience didnt understand or care about some of their political messages. Bono replied that there was a period early in their career where it did bother him if he thought that some of the audience did not get their political point of view. BUT that he came to realize that it really didnt matter whether you were there to see them because of their political stance or because you thought they were a great live band. Both are great. The music is not about separation into political groups. It is about bringing people together with varying backgrounds and opinions. If you pigeon hole fans into one political group and say they are the only ones that can like U2 you are creating a kind of musical fascism IMO. That is something I think the band would be vehemently against and has sort of indicated in interviews over the years.

I personally have not always agreed with Bono's point of view on some things. But at the very least his point of view has caused me to take a look at the issue more closely. It is my decision though where I stand on an issue, not Bono's. I dont think U2 want a bunch of robots following them around agreeing with every one of their points of view. Alot of us dont like some of the musical directions U2 has gone in. Does that mean if you dont like every single musical direction or song you cant be a huge fan?? I certainly dont think so.
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Old 11-13-2001, 09:04 PM   #39
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As Diamond the U2 Patriot (I got it right!) always reminds us, Bono said it best: "It's about transcending boundaries."

Quote:
Originally posted by Seconds;
I think that most hard line republican concervatives who enjoy U2, like them for different reasons than some Us. I love them because of their stance on human rights and anti war themes. Maybe concervatives just enjoy the the melody in their songs or maybe they only enjoy the spiritual love theme of their songs. But you are right, it does seem a bit paradoxical.
Seconds: I lean conservative and usually vote Republican. I also value human rights and, ideally, I do not LIKE war (although I feel it is necessary at times). I completely understand U2's political stance and I admire them for it, regardless of whether I always agree with them on every issue.

Quote:
Originally posted by sharky:
Republicans aren't anit-human rights. Republicans aren't anti-Christian. And there are many cases where Republicans in power have done very U2-like things. The whole Drop the Debt campaign comes to mind. And I remember living in Illinois about two years ago when the Republican governor placed a moratorium on the death penalty [very big human rights/Amnesty International issue].
In the end, its all about humanity which transcends political boundaries. And coincidentally, its all about the music which transcends any boundaries you try to confine it to.
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2FReAk:
and if I were a conservative, I would find it impossible to listen to just the melody 'cause all the other things are so present. I would go nuts. And about U2 being christians, well, you can say that my dilemma with U2 lies here. I'm not religous. but, I can stand the preeching in, let's say Gloria, 'cause religion has not half the importance of politics to me. This is not to say I don't find religion interesting, 'cause I do, I just don't find preaching and lyrics about how good God is interesting.. but it's something I can overlook.There are other very interesting pieces of writing.
Well, U2FReAk, I understand; but other people prioritize differently; I for one enjoy U2's spirituality and appreciate their political awareness and humanitarian efforts. I strongly disagree with Metallica, spiritually, but I enjoy their music, even some of their political views. If I should "go nuts" due to U2's political statements, does that mean a flaming atheist should storm out of the arena when Bono starts singing the 116th Psalm before "Streets" or the "Allelujahs" at the end of "Walk On"?

Quote:
Originally posted by arturod:
Just look at some of the New York Post's reviews of the U2 concerts or that article that somone posted the other day entitled "Rock stars should shut up." Is it the music you're into? Or the love songs? The melodies? Maybe you're just not seeing the whole picure of what U2 is really about. It's like Nirvana's song "In bloom":

He's the one who likes all the pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means
And I say aahh

I haven't said that we should get our political views from members of the entertainment industry, but that being said, an artist's views (political, social and religious) are reflected in their work. Consequently fans are able to relate to that artist because they have similar beliefs or values and it is those values that should
come across through the music.

Here's another question: Conservatives, what are your 3 favorite U2 albums. Just wondering?
I disagreed with the NY Post review, in fact, I replied to a thread where someone posted it and I stated that Bono's political activism is INDEED very important. NO, I'm not just into the melodies or the love songs. But just as I don't agree with EVERY platform of EVERY candidate I vote for, I do not agree with EVERY political position Bono takes. And Larry's a vegetarian; I'm NOT!

As for the Nirvana excerpt, you can hardly say that we are going out personally shooting guns or partaking in violence because of our political theories.

Yes, Bono's views are reflected in his work, and I do like it when I relate to something in a good song, but how could one be expected to relate 100% to the music they listen to? I don't know about many bands that sing about the life of a 28 year old from Alabama!

3 Favorites? OCTOBER, JOSHUA TREE, ALL THAT YOU CAN'T LEAVE BEHIND

Quote:
Like someone to blame posted too much for me to copy, so I'll address it without a post:
Like someone to blame: Although I am not usually fond of politicians (regardless of party affiliation), I take issue with your second-guessing of Republicans who support the Drop the Debt campaign. Many of these Senators and Congressmen came forth to support the effort due to their religious convictions and their own human spirit rather than just for votes. Probably a lot of American voters are not even aware of the campaign.

My representative, Spencer bachus (R-Alabama) was one of the FIRST, Republican or Democrat, to support Jubilee 2000, and he did it based on what he and his family and church members had seen in mission work around the world. He is currently going against the grain of Congress AND the Administration in seeking a prohibition from the American stock exchanges of trading by companies that do business in Sudan, where slavery is still legal. Unfortunately, he has not won many friends, Republican or Democrat, on this issue, but he has my support for it.

Another Republican Congressman from Alabama, Bob Riley, will be stepping down after this term to run for Governor. He wants to replace the 100 year old state Constitution, an abysmal document written by bitter post-Reconstruciton bigots, which requires the whole state to take a vote before a rural county can increase fire dues, and still has segregationist laws that violate Federal Civil Rights laws. Also, per this horrible document, a family that makes as little as $4000 has to pay state income taxes, and this "evil" Republican wants to eliminate that by spreading it to those of us who CAN afford it. Our current Democratic Governor has "suddenly" gotten on the Constitution bandwagon since he lost flat on his face when his "education lottery" referndum went down in a landslide and since our public schools are in proration.

Senator Sessions from Alabama is indeed conservative, but he is proposing expanded FREE healthcare in high-unemployment in West Alabama, AND he is addressing the causes of the region's poverty by bringing a major highway (then comes industry and jobs) through the area from Tennessee's border to the Gulf of Mexico. I feel that some Democrats would merely throw money at the symptoms, but sometimes the roots need to be addressed as well.

Please keep in mind that "consevatives" can also be "compassionate" outside of the realms of government; they can be compassionate of themselves and of their own time; I know I should do more myself, but I know many conservative people who give a LOT of themselves to those in need. Conservatives do not always think that bigger government is the solution, and usually, that is where I line up as a conservative.

Sorry for the long post; I wanted to be all-inclusive. Which reminds me, some of you need to lear to appreciate the diversity of U2's fanbase.

~U2Alabama
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Old 11-13-2001, 09:54 PM   #40
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Its amazing how some of the liberals, can lump Republicans and Conservitives into one big group with exactly the same views on everything.
I'm a Republican but I'm against civilians having guns. Many of the liberals and especially the anti-war crowd might be shocked to learn that U2 supported the NATO military operations against the Bosnian Serbs and were disappointed that the USA did not start bombing years earlier. Its in the book "Until The End Of The World".
While much is known about U2s support of MLK and anti IRA stance in Northern Ireland, also their opposition to some Reagans policies in south and central America, there are 10 times as many area's where U2s views are not known.
New Years Day is a powerful song and was written in support of the Polish Solidarity movement that was opposed to the Polish Communist government and was threatened with being crushed by a possible Soviet Invasion of Poland back in 1981 that never happened. Even the most diehard Reagan supporter would cheer at that, unlike many Liberals who painted the Soviets and Communist as Angels and good guys.
But like Blue Room and others have said, most people actually may find something they agree with the band about, no matter where they come from politically. I have different views on most things with a great friend of mine even though he is a Republican. In fact, he is more of a Libertarian.
It doesn't matter if you have differences with the band on some issues. I'm sure the members of the band don't agree on everything! Also, much of what they think and believe on a whole range of issues is simply not known!
There are many Republicans who do support Amnesty International, and to a smaller extent Greenpeace. I think many of the liberals on here don't understand the wide range of views that exist in the Republican party itself. They take a a few politicians views and cast all Repulicans with them on every issue. They take U2s stand on a couple of issue's and boom, thats how they feel on everything. Nope, people and politics are Too complex to be lumped like that!
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Old 11-13-2001, 10:36 PM   #41
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I can understand your point, STING, about there being a wide range of beliefs within both Republicanism and conservatism. Unfortunately, at least within the Republican Party, there seems to be an emphasis on "unity" quite a bit, and I guess I find myself at odds with that "united" platform they present. At the same token, I often find it hard to understand why the moderate Republicans stay in the party, particularly since--and this issue was brought up during Sen. Jeffords' defection from the party--that the moderate agenda was largely ignored in favor of a more hardline conservative agenda.

Well, not condemning anyone or their beliefs. Just thought I'd comment from my own personal observations, as to promote understanding.

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Old 11-13-2001, 10:42 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ody:
Hmmm. Did U2 ever say that they support gay marriage or are you just interpreting "we believe in love" that way. I am curious, because I don't know.

Also, if you argue that conservatives don't understand U2's message based on their political views, I think you can easily argue that one can't understand U2's message either, without understanding their religious views. I mean, when Bono yells "Judas" at the beginning of Unil the End of the World, I just don't think that people from a non-Christian background could really understand the song...

So I think that it goes both ways .
Hmmm. I was born and raised Jewish, and I'm a big fan of U2 and have been for about 18 years now.

To automatically assume that someone without a Christian background can't understand the passion and soul in music (even if the music happens to embrace certain religious ideas) isn't fair. It's just not fair. It's about as unfair as saying "If you're conservative, then you ought not listen to U2 because their beliefs coincide with yours" I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. When I listen to Gloria I hear passion and and love for God. When I hear the whole of Achtung Baby I hear deep down emotional pain and wrestling with one's state of soul pain with dotted interjections of momentary bliss and reflection. Take the music for what it is. Music itself (even tracks without vocals) can speak on an emotional level and I think *that's* what brings U2 fans together. Whether they be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, conservative, liberal... etc.

Music of all kinds interests me. I love everything from electronic music to rock and roll to Gospel music. The idea of music is to convey emotion, passion, ideas thus bringing people together through song. U2 as we know them through their music is not excluded from what music can achieve. What attracted me to their music was not their political views. It wasn't necessarily the melodies. It wasn't the musicianship. What attracted me to U2 was their emottion, passion and strong convictions and their ability to eloquently portray themselves (and even question themselves) as human beings with passionate minds and souls. As far as I'm concerned, there shouldn't be boundaries in music and it should not be exclusionary. It's the listening audience that has taken it upon themselves to create walls around certain types of music when there shouldn't be any boundaries at all.

Maybe I should shut my pie hole now... *shrugs*

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Old 11-13-2001, 10:44 PM   #43
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Don't like conservative Republicans. Its like the Nazi party. Jerry Falwell and Bob Barr (makes you want to barf). If you want to have a lot of fun, go to the CNN chats and watch so many of them have absolutely no reply to intelligent questions.
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Old 11-13-2001, 11:37 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon:
I can understand your point, STING, about there being a wide range of beliefs within both Republicanism and conservatism. Unfortunately, at least within the Republican Party, there seems to be an emphasis on "unity" quite a bit, and I guess I find myself at odds with that "united" platform they present. At the same token, I often find it hard to understand why the moderate Republicans stay in the party, particularly since--and this issue was brought up during Sen. Jeffords' defection from the party--that the moderate agenda was largely ignored in favor of a more hardline conservative agenda.
Melon,

It seems to me that Democrats in Congress seem to naturally agree on a lot of issues, whence the Republican movement to create a more "united" front.
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Old 11-14-2001, 12:32 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by adam's_mistress:
[BTo automatically assume that someone without a Christian background can't understand the passion and soul in music (even if the music happens to embrace certain religious ideas) isn't fair. It's just not fair. It's about as unfair as saying "If you're conservative, then you ought not listen to U2 because their beliefs coincide with yours" I'm sorry, but that's bullshit[/B]
Actually, I think Ody was actually saying the same thing as you, but in a different way. I don't think Ody actually believed that non-Christians can't understand the passion and soul of music. I think he/she was just using that as an argument.

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