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Old 08-02-2004, 01:39 PM   #46
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both sides try to say everything and nothing. I'm not a fan of Kerry, he might do a horrible job as a president, but Bush has allready proven that he does a horrible job.
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Old 08-02-2004, 01:40 PM   #47
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I'm discrediting myself? How?

You're discussing something that you have no clue about. That shouldn't stop you from having your opinions, but it also does not stop me from calling you on them.

It would be like me sitting around with some athiest friends and talking about why Christians choose to believe in their faith. True, everyone's entitled to their opinions, but that doesn't make them knowledgable about the subject at hand.
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Old 08-02-2004, 01:50 PM   #48
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Bro, take it easy, you have no idea how closely i am following this thing. All angles. I can gurantee your sitting in the dark on this one. Your last comment on whites and blacks made me laugh out loud at how off you are. there is more to the election then listening to franken radio. believe me.
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Old 08-02-2004, 01:56 PM   #49
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You're right, odowpa. I exclusively listen to Al Franken's show and I beleive everything he says and rely on him for all of my opinions regarding the election.

Never mind that what I said was said half-jokingly. Perhaps I need to be more liberal () with my use of the .

I just found it hard to believe that you followed the DNC with an open mind and came away with the idea that Deomcrats are simply for "anyone but Bush." I've heard conservatives lament about the lack of "red meat" in Kerry's acceptance speech. the fact is that he was trying to aim for those undecided voters who might be turned off by too much partisan rhetoric. But if you listened to his speech there was plenty of good stuff there.

Quote:
For four years, we've heard a lot of talk about values. But values spoken without actions taken are just slogans. Values are not just words. They're what we live by. They're about the causes we champion and the people we fight for. And it is time for those who talk about family values to start valuing families.
You don't value families by kicking kids out of after school programs and taking cops off our streets, so that Enron can get another tax break.
We believe in the family value of caring for our children and protecting the neighborhoods where they walk and play.
And that is the choice in this election.
You don't value families by denying real prescription drug coverage to seniors, so big drug companies can get another windfall.
We believe in the family value expressed in one of the oldest Commandments: "Honor thy father and thy mother." As President, I will not privatize Social Security. I will not cut benefits. And together, we will make sure that senior citizens never have to cut their pills in half because they can't afford life-saving medicine.
And that is the choice in this election.

<snip>

And let me tell you what we won't do: we won't raise taxes on the middle class. You've heard a lot of false charges about this in recent months. So let me say straight out what I will do as President: I will cut middle class taxes. I will reduce the tax burden on small business. And I will roll back the tax cuts for the wealthiest individuals who make over $200,000 a year, so we can invest in job creation, health care and education.
Our education plan for a stronger America sets high standards and demands accountability from parents, teachers, and schools. It provides for smaller class sizes and treats teachers like the professionals they are. And it gives a tax credit to families for each and every year of college.
When I was a prosecutor, I met young kids who were in trouble, abandoned by adults. And as President, I am determined that we stop being a nation content to spend $50,000 a year to keep a young person in prison for the rest of their life when we could invest $10,000 to give them Head Start, Early Start, Smart Start, the best possible start in life.
And we value health care that's affordable and accessible for all Americans.
Since 2000, four million people have lost their health insurance. Millions more are struggling to afford it.
You know what's happening. Your premiums, your co-payments, your deductibles have all gone through the roof.
Our health care plan for a stronger America cracks down on the waste, greed, and abuse in our health care system and will save families up to $1,000 a year on their premiums. You'll get to pick your own doctor and patients and doctors, not insurance company bureaucrats, will make medical decisions. Under our plan, Medicare will negotiate lower drug prices for seniors. And all Americans will be able to buy less expensive prescription drugs from countries like Canada.
The story of people struggling for health care is the story of so many Americans. But you know what, it's not the story of senators and members of Congress. Because we give ourselves great health care and you get the bill. Well, I'm here to say, your family's health care is just as important as any politician's in Washington, D.C.
And when I'm President, America will stop being the only advanced nation in the world which fails to understand that health care is not a privilege for the wealthy, the connected, and the elected it is a right for all Americans.

<snip>

We value an America that controls its own destiny because it's finally and forever independent of Mideast oil. What does it mean for our economy and our national security when we only have three percent of the world's oil reserves, yet we rely on foreign countries for fifty-three percent of what we consume?
I want an America that relies on its own ingenuity and innovation not the Saudi royal family.
And our energy plan for a stronger America will invest in new technologies and alternative fuels and the cars of the future -- so that no young American in uniform will ever be held hostage to our dependence on oil from the Middle East.
I've told you about our plans for the economy, for education, for health care, for energy independence. I want you to know more about them. So now I'm going to say something that Franklin Roosevelt could never have said in his acceptance speech: go to johnkerry.com.
I want to address these next words directly to President George W. Bush: In the weeks ahead, let's be optimists, not just opponents. Let's build unity in the American family, not angry division. Let's honor this nation's diversity; let's respect one another; and let's never misuse for political purposes the most precious document in American history, the Constitution of the United States.
My friends, the high road may be harder, but it leads to a better place. And that's why Republicans and Democrats must make this election a contest of big ideas, not small-minded attacks. This is our time to reject the kind of politics calculated to divide race from race, group from group, region from region. Maybe some just see us divided into red states and blue states, but I see us as one America red, white, and blue. And when I am President, the government I lead will enlist people of talent, Republicans as well as Democrats, to find the common ground so that no one who has something to contribute will be left on the sidelines.
And let me say it plainly: in that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them. I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight: I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country.
These aren't Democratic values. These aren't Republican values. They're American values. We believe in them. They're who we are. And if we honor them, if we believe in ourselves, we can build an America that's stronger at home and respected in the world.

So much promise stretches before us. Americans have always reached for the impossible, looked to the next horizon, and asked: What if?
Two young bicycle mechanics from Dayton asked what if this airplane could take off at Kitty Hawk? It did that and changed the world forever. A young president asked what if we could go to the moon in ten years? And now we're exploring the solar system and the stars themselves. A young generation of entrepreneurs asked, what if we could take all the information in a library and put it on a little chip the size of a fingernail? We did and that too changed the world forever.
And now it's our time to ask: What if?
What if we find a breakthrough to cure Parkinson's, diabetes, Alzheimer's and AIDS? What if we have a president who believes in science, so we can unleash the wonders of discovery like stem cell research to treat illness and save millions of lives?
What if we do what adults should do and make sure all our children are safe in the afternoons after school? And what if we have a leadership that's as good as the American dream so that bigotry and hatred never again steal the hope and future of any American?
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:20 PM   #50
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Sorry if i came off as being an ass, after i read my line, I regretted the way i worded things.

but, listen to what im saying here. The big issue for everyone is the war, right? we agree on that? 84% (!) of voting Dems are against it, Kerry is for it. They just want Bush out, they don't care who it is. You are trying to put someone into office who is not in the know on the issue. If you moved to NYC or any other large US city, your safety could be in jeopardy. Would you really rather want Kerry than Bush. If you do, then I respect it, I just don't get it. He hasn't proved that he'd be better for the job. please enlightne me with the facts why he's be better, and int'l affairs has nothing to do with Al Quada terrorizing us.

And someone else here made the comment that the gov't was looking to postpone the election?? that was crap the press talked about, not the gov't...just to clear that up.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:23 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by odowdpa
They just want Bush out, they don't care who it is.
There you go again. PLENTY of people want Bush out for many, many other reasons.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:26 PM   #52
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so you understand, you have to choose someonewho you think is better? is kerry really better for the country - all logical reasoning points to no. i.e. economy, taxes, jobs (on the upturn) and the war
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by odowdpa



They just want Bush out, they don't care who it is.
You should ask yourself how good a political leader was that many people think this way "Anything but him"
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:29 PM   #54
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Given the $$$$ available, both parties are motivated to retain (or retake) an office by reasons other than leadership.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:34 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by odowdpa
so you understand, you have to choose someonewho you think is better? is kerry really better for the country - all logical reasoning points to no. i.e. economy, taxes, jobs (on the upturn) and the war
Yes. If that's so hard for you to believe then perhaps your mind is not as open as you claim it is.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:34 PM   #56
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Lack of thinking on their part i believe. they just don't like seeing people die for a good cause. no one wants this. this was an evil that was brought to us. clinton would have had to do the same thing. its sad, but its the world we're living in right now. kerry has not proved that he would be better. Give me the cold hard facts to prove that he would be better....

And does anyone else find it funny how Kerry did not once address his Senate record during his speech? Thats only been the last 20 years of his life.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:38 PM   #57
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odowdpa:
Would Clinton have attacked Afghanistan?
I think Yes
Iraq?
Why??

Quote:
kerry has not proved that he would be better.
Right, give him the chance to prove it. Like many others it's hard for me to imagine that he could be even worse than George Walker Bush

I'm amused again and again about Republican partisans who mention the "Horrible past of Mr. Kerry" but feel completely unhappy if we simply compare the history of both candidates.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:44 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by odowdpa
Give me the cold hard facts to prove that he would be better....

And does anyone else find it funny how Kerry did not once address his Senate record during his speech? Thats only been the last 20 years of his life.
You might want to check your 'cold hard facts' better.

Quote:
From Kerry's speech

When I came to the Senate, I broke with many in my own party to vote for a balanced budget, because I thought it was the right thing to do. I fought to put a 100,000 cops on the street.

And then I reached across the aisle to work with John McCain, to find the truth about our POW's and missing in action, and to finally make peace with Vietnam.
Source: http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/s...2004_0729.html
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:45 PM   #59
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He has done nothing to prove he is better in 20 years of office. The only we know is that he voted the most liberal of ANY senate member in his time. If you don't believe that one, just go to the national journal web site (they have no ties either way). then he votes for the war, which was a thing we had to do, but you never know where this guy is going to go. He's unpredictable at best. i need to see more.
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:46 PM   #60
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You'd have to admit, Fizz, that Kerry put more emphasis on his service in Vietnam (verbally and visually) than his career in the Senate.
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