House OKs corporal punishment

[Macfistowannabe]

House OKs corporal punishment

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3141204

Parents, guardians would be allowed to spank children as a punishment

By JEFFREY GILBERT
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau
RESOURCES

AUSTIN - After little debate, the House on Monday gave preliminary approval to a measure that gives parents the right to use reasonable corporal punishment to discipline a child.

Rep. Harold Dutton, D-Houston, said he filed the bill because there are a number of people in Texas who do not believe they have the right to spank or hit their children.

Dutton, a lawyer, heard about the problems from town hall meetings he attended. He also represented a Houston grandmother who was arrested for whipping her 14-year-old granddaughter.

"The grandma's question to the judge was, 'Should I have sent her to her room to timeout? Should I have taken away her video games? Or do I do something that's drastic enough to try to turn her life around?' " Dutton said.

An amendment was added to the bill that specifically gives parents, stepparents and guardians who have control of the child the right to use corporal punishment.

A few lawmakers raised questions over whether that list covered grandparents. Rep. Debbie Riddle, R-Houston, asked Dutton, "I didn't see grandparents on there, so I can't bust the bottom of my little grandson?"

Because of the confusion, Dutton will add grandparent to the list before it is heard for final passage.

While paddling is banned in Houston schools, Dutton said that under state law a parent can give a public or private school consent to use corporal punishment.

He said he had intended to file a bill that gave schools the option to give students "three pops" in lieu of a three-day suspension. He didn't file it because "it wasn't germane," he said.

A similar bill was passed by the House last legislative session but was left pending in a Senate committee.

Rep. Alma Allen, D-Houston, said she is opposed to spanking altogether and has filed a bill that would amend the education code and outlaw corporal punishment in schools. Some 28 other states already have a similar law.

Allen said the use of hitting demeans children and can lead to such things as lower test scores. She said children who are hit also tend to hit other children.

 

[Do Miss America]

Let me get this straight, they made a law to make something that's been happening since the dawn of time legal?

If people want to spank then use that to discipline your child.

I don't agree with parents giving schools permission, they don't know how they'll hit.

I have nothing against spanking per se but this law is stupid.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I actually agree with you 100%. Spanking is the parents' responsibility, should they choose to use it responsibly.

 

[Do Miss America]

100%? This may be a first for us Mac.

 

[BonosSaint]

I don't recall suffering any psychological damage from my numerous spankings. Parents. Don't see any problem. Schools? No.

 

[indra]

Oh. I thought they voted to allow spanking of members of Congress. Now THAT would be a law I would support!

 

[80sU2isBest]

indra, that is hilarious!!

 

[deep]

hey

this is Texas

i'd think twice

don't they have "right to carry" gun laws

 

[Macfistowannabe]

So what? Off topic.

 

[Anthony]

I personally support the right for schools to use corporal punishment as well. Its a system that has been much maligned, and its a system that has contributed to the deterioration of the school system in modern times, where a teacher is, essentially, impotent to discipline an unruly child in fear of a violent parent or a law suit. The situation is ridiculous.

No, corporal punishment isn't the be all and end all, nor should it be. A teacher's responsiblity, and indeed a parent's, should be to attempt and exhaust all other methods before having to resort to corporal punishment, and it should be proportionate. The unreasonable demonisation of teachers using corporal punishment has helped this irrational process where teachers are no longer respected, but are practically down-trodden by disrespectful parents and spoilt children who know that they can get away with anything because the threat of detention really isn't enough - nor is an expulsion, come to think of it. Anti-social children such as these usually don't care about their education in the slightest, and such threats are flacidly impotent.

I don't know, my father was slapped at school once when he didn't deserve it, and caned when he did, and he grew up to have more respect for authority than many of my contemporaries in British schools. I was brought up with respect for my parents as well as fear of the smack - though I was never touched. It sounds like a wretched thing to say, but fear can help young people in line. I spent three years in Catholic school in Spain. Actually, it was a convent school, and they did use the threat of force, and indeed sometimes did. That was one of the best schools I ever went to.

Ant.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I don't agree with corporal punishment.
I do think a more suitable alternative would be a stint in the army reserves. If that doesn't give the little bastards any sense of respect, then they are most likely the kids who are heading to jail eventually anyway.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I don't agree with corporal punishment.
I do think a more suitable alternative would be a stint in the army reserves. If that doesn't give the little bastards any sense of respect, then they are most likely the kids who are heading to jail eventually anyway.

What other alternatives?
"No, Johnny! No!"?

I have nothing against it if the parents are doing it responsibly without assaulting their kids. It's none of the school's business, though. I wouldn't send my kid to the army reserves if I felt I could discipline the child myself.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

"Allen said the use of hitting demeans children and can lead to such things as lower test scores. She said children who are hit also tend to hit other children."

100 percent true imho

My Mother was hit in the knuckles w/ a ruler by the nuns in ******** school, she's in her sixties and it still bothers her

Maybe these people should just call Supernanny, she seems to get kids in line-and w/ out hitting

 

[deep]

So what? Off topic.

thread title reads: "House OKs"

should read "Texas House"

Texas is one messed-up state.

not surprised by anything that comes out of Texas

 

[Macfistowannabe]

"Allen said the use of hitting demeans children and can lead to such things as lower test scores. She said children who are hit also tend to hit other children."

100 percent true imho

My Mother was hit in the knuckles w/ a ruler by the nuns in ******** school, she's in her sixties and it still bothers her

Maybe these people should just call Supernanny, she seems to get kids in line-and w/ out hitting

That type of scenerio sounds like assault to me, but I would think there is a fine line between that and a casual spanking that causes no bodily harm.

 

[nbcrusader]

The purpose of the bill was to inform the citizens of the rights they already had.

I guess that is messed up.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

thread title reads: "House OKs"

should read "Texas House"

Texas is one messed-up state.

not surprised by anything that comes out of Texas

So spanking is extreme to you?

 

[Maggie1]

I do not see anything wrong with spanking and I also think it should be allowed in schools. Children are out of control and have no respect for rules or authority. If they thought they were going to get their butts wacked they would think twice about their behavior. I got spanked once when I was in school and that was in the first grade. Hence, I never needed another and was not damaged in anyway.
I know there are some very nice children but most of them are just out right sickening.

 

[Bono's shades]

So is this bill fairly specific about what is allowed under the term "corporal punishment" Is it just a light spanking? Spanking with a paddle so hard that the kid turns black and blue? Or whatever physical force they deem necessary?

I also wonder why it is considered OK to hit a child when hitting an adult can result in criminal charges.

 

[Do Miss America]

I do not see anything wrong with spanking and I also think it should be allowed in schools. Children are out of control and have no respect for rules or authority. If they thought they were going to get their butts wacked they would think twice about their behavior. I got spanked once when I was in school and that was in the first grade. Hence, I never needed another and was not damaged in anyway.
I know there are some very nice children but most of them are just out right sickening.

Problem is how do you monitor or control the spanking? When another is spanking your child how do you know they won't go too far?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

I also wonder why it is considered OK to hit a child when hitting an adult can result in criminal charges.

You aren't hitting to inflict them with pain. You are resorting to a form of discipline that is not violent, but out of your right to guidance as a parent to get your child's attention.

 

[indra]

I also wonder why it is considered OK to hit a child when hitting an adult can result in criminal charges.

That's what my mom always said. She also thought it was a pretty pathetic adult that needs to hit a child to get his or her point across. Besides someday that child is going to grow up and in many cases be bigger than the adult that hit him or her.

I think the primary lesson taught by spanking (force works) would be better left untaught. Any gain from spanking is short lived.

I remember a kid in one of my classes being taken out in the hall and spanked. I also remember knowing that if anyone spanked me, I would have to kill him or her. I knew full well I couldn't do it then, but I would someday. Nobody hits me because they aren't smart enough to come up with a better method of discipline and gets away with it.

It's been over 30 years since that happened and I still remember it very strongly. I also remember the teacher (he still lives in the area). I still don't like or respect him at all. And I wasn't even the one spanked.

 

[nbcrusader]

I would suggest that an environment where there are no consequences to behavior is worse than spanking.

 

[Do Miss America]

I would suggest that an environment where there are no consequences to behavior is worse than spanking.

I agree, but there is an in between.

 

[indra]

I would suggest that an environment where there are no consequences to behavior is worse than spanking.

Do you honestly think that spanking is the only negative consequence? That's what my mum meant when she thought adults who resorted to spanking were pathetic. An adult should be able to come up with some consequense a child will be unhappy with without resorting to assault (which is what it would be called if it was done to another adult). Otherwise you're just not thinking hard enough.

 

[Irvine511]

i'm agnostic to parents spanking, but there should be no corporal punishment in schools.

most of my mother's side of the family went to catholic schools in the 1950s and 1960s, and they have horror stories to tell. in school, corporal punishment does little but to make the gentle kids cry and the tough kids resentful.

 

[Bono's shades]

most of my mother's side of the family went to catholic schools in the 1950s and 1960s, and they have horror stories to tell. in school, corporal punishment does little but to make the gentle kids cry and the tough kids resentful.

Both of my parents went to Catholic schools in the late '40s and early '50s. I've heard the horror stories too, and I remember thinking how thankful I was that I grew up in a more enlightened era.

This bill is just one more sign that we are back-pedaling as a society.

 

[yolland]

I remember a kid in one of my classes being taken out in the hall and spanked. I also remember knowing that if anyone spanked me, I would have to kill him or her.

I remember having similar thoughts about parents and teachers I knew who thought nothing of 'whooping' their children or students in public. On the other hand, I'd have to say the kids I remember them 'whooping' seldom seemed as bothered by it as I was. I think I was just more sensitive to the element of shaming and humiliation in these punishments than they were. Which partly explains, I guess, why I was a well-behaved child--I dreaded being shamed, especially publicly, and went out of my way to avoid it.

That said, I think shame is a poor foundation to build a child's moral compass on, and I strive to avoid it with my own children. It's very important to me that they understand their punishments are for doing bad things, not for being bad people. Easier said than done, though...

 

[deep]

this is Texas

i'd think twice

"10-year-old Texas boy fatally shoots his father at start of weekend visit"

HOUSTON (AP) - A 10-year-old boy fatally shot his physician father after the man arrived to pick him up for a weekend visit, authorities said.

Rick James Lohstroh, 41, was struck several times Friday as he sat in his sport utility vehicle, said Sgt. B. E. Williams of the Harris County Sheriff's Department. The boy, using his mother's gun, fired through the back seat before getting out of the vehicle and continuing to shoot, Williams said. Lohstroh, a doctor at the University of Texas Medical Branch, died on the way to a hospital.

Deputy Jeff Dixie would not discuss the boy's whereabouts or charges.

 

[nbcrusader]

Do you honestly think that spanking is the only negative consequence? That's what my mum meant when she thought adults who resorted to spanking were pathetic. An adult should be able to come up with some consequense a child will be unhappy with without resorting to assault (which is what it would be called if it was done to another adult). Otherwise you're just not thinking hard enough.

The ability to spank is a far more powerful tool than the actual spanking.

Children mouthing off to their parents "I know my rights" "I'll call the police" etc. is unaccepatble.

My hope is that my children will simply not want to disobey, not fear consequences of disobedience.