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Old 07-27-2005, 11:30 AM   #106
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


yes, he does.

well done.

got anything else to add?
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:31 AM   #107
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


That's the spirit!
Really?

I would have thought it would offend Christians if we talked about the people burning Harry Potter books or the people sending their gay son to an "ex-gay" school without specifying that they represent a particular group within Christianity and aren't representative of Christians as a whole.

Honestly, you would prefer we used phrases like these, instead of distinguishing between mainstream Christianity and those who have been described as the Christian Taliban?

"How stupid can these Christians get?"

"Silly Christians on CNN burning Harry Potter books"
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:36 AM   #108
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Really?

I would have thought it would offend Christians if we talked about the people burning Harry Potter books or the people sending their gay son to an "ex-gay" school without specifying that they represent a particular group within Christianity and aren't representative of Christians as a whole.

Honestly, you would prefer we used phrases like these, instead of distinguishing between mainstream Christianity and those who have been described as the Christian Taliban?

"How stupid can these Christians get?"

"Silly Christians on CNN burning Harry Potter books"

you see, all NBC and 80s appear to want is to be victims. seriously: why come here if you don't want to be challenged? no matter what is said, no matter the lengths someone goes to in order to make distinctions, they're just waiting to be offended and to say, in effect, "see! you're no better than those you decry!"

which is bullshit. i'm very happy to let the Christian Taliban, those of Christianist political activist groups, say and do and preach whatever they want. it's their country too.

however, they do not believe that this is my country. they believe this is God's country, and faggots ain't got no place in it. neither do Jews. or Muslims. or liberals. or feminists.

(remember, those people caused 9-11).

i do not believe for a minute that NBC and 80s agree with any of the above. but they seem to be begging to be placed into that group.

i don't understand.

at least you understand.
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:42 AM   #109
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Well, once again, Maddox hits it right on the head.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....ticket_to_hell
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:46 AM   #110
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Originally posted by Irvine511
garbage. and you know it. and way to avoid ANYTHING i wrote in that post.

am i going to vilify Fred Phelps and his ilk? absolutely. same for every single person on that link Melon posted. why? because they want to destroy me, and they want to destroy anyone who isn't like them. not necessarily physically destroy, but they do not want to live in a secular, pluralist society. and they would agree with me on that, absolutely.

unless you think these ideas have merit. as i've said, i've struggled to distinguish between these self-described Christians -- you know, the "Christianists" -- and the myriad versions and visions of Christianity i've seen expressed on this board.

you'd rather me not do that, apparently.

when you're ready to move beyond this, and come to realize that what i'm doing is far, far, far more nuanced than you're willing to coutenance, do let me know.
Bull.

In most posts, you are vilifying the ideas Phelps spreads.

You've caught onto Melon's cute "taliban" label and ran with it.

The distinctions you offer don't hold water as principle. But you've been more than willing to offer that the rules are different when you deem religion involved.
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Old 07-27-2005, 11:48 AM   #111
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I will not let the Christian Taliban smear and monopolize what it means to be Christian. Perhaps I should just call them what people would have called them 500 years ago: "heretics."

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Old 07-27-2005, 11:58 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Bull.

In most posts, you are vilifying the ideas Phelps spreads.

You've caught onto Melon's cute "taliban" label and ran with it.

The distinctions you offer don't hold water as principle. But you've been more than willing to offer that the rules are different when you deem religion involved.

um, what would you like me to do with Phelps' ideas?

i don't use the Taliban label much, but i'll defend it's use. i have used, consistently and appropriately, the "Christianist" label and will continue to do so because it's appropriate.

the distinctions i offer? so there's no distinction to be made between you, and Pax, and Sherry Darling, and 80s, and Fred Phelps? you're all the same? is that what you're trying to say?

and, yes, religion does change the rules. as i've said, repeatedly, it's a unique phenomenon and must be understood on it's own terms.
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Old 07-27-2005, 12:14 PM   #113
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silly me, forgot something important:

while we don't have suicide bombings by self-described Christians, we have ample evidence of violent tactics: shootings of doctors, bombings of clinics, the Olympics, gay clubs, etc.

so don't think, for a second, that Christianity is immune from the perverted violence that afflicts Islam right now.
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Old 07-27-2005, 12:20 PM   #114
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Yes, but when WASPs aren't the target of terrorism, it doesn't matter, remember?

Melon
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Old 07-27-2005, 02:18 PM   #115
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Heh, personally, the one word I use describe people like Fred Phelps and Jerry Falwell and people along that line, as well as the extremists from any other religion, is the word "idiots". Because that's pretty much what they are, imho.

Angela
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Old 07-27-2005, 02:45 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



well done.

got anything else to add?
Yes, I do.

You say that you use "distinction between certain types of Christianity" out of sensitivity to Christians who you don't think are "the Christian taliban" and comparable to Nazis and the KKK. But the problem with that is that I don't think you're being honest with yourself or us. I think you do indeed villify not only those who act in a certain way politically, but also those who have even certain beliefs about homosexuality and other issues. I think that you would call me the Christian Taliban for simply believing that homosexuality is wrong or that homosexuals should not be able to adopt. I base that on the fact that you have said those beliefs "fan the flames of hatred". Am I correct in assuming that you would call me the "Christian Taliban"?
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Old 07-27-2005, 02:49 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
You say that you use "distinction between certain types of Christianity" out of sensitivity to Christians who you don't think are "the Christian taliban" and comparable to Nazis and the KKK. But the problem with that is that I don't think you're being honest with yourself or us. I think you do indeed villify not only those who act in a certain way politically, but also those who have even certain beliefs about homosexuality and other issues. I think that you would call me the Christian Taliban for simply believing that homosexuality is wrong or that homosexuals should not be able to adopt. I base that on the fact that you have said those beliefs "fan the flames of hatred". Am I correct in assuming that you would call me the "Christian Taliban"?
If you believe that your prejudices should be legislated, then yes, you'd be part of the "Christian Taliban." It would be no different than the KKK or the Nazis who are bigoted and actively push to make their bigotry law.

Now those who are openly bigoted, but recognize that there shouldn't be laws against the target of their prejudice (like the average run-of-the-mill racist), they're just bigots, not part of any larger "Taliban."

That, at least, is the difference in my book.

Melon
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:00 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest

I think that you would call me the Christian Taliban for simply believing that homosexuality is wrong or that homosexuals should not be able to adopt. I base that on the fact that you have said those beliefs "fan the flames of hatred". Am I correct in assuming that you would call me the "Christian Taliban"?
no. you're doing two dangerous things:

1. the whole, "i think that you think"
2. assuming. we know what happens when we assume -- we make an ASS out of U and ME.

Melon said it well -- think whatever you want, but it's when you try and legislate your beliefs/prejudices, and use a religious document as justification, that it becomes Taliban-esque, though i still prefer the term "Christianist" as it's really prejudice in the guise of religion and offensive to many Christians.

the difference is this: i am willing to let Jerry Fallwell live in my country. but he is not willing to let me live in his.
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Old 07-27-2005, 03:59 PM   #119
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Originally posted by Irvine511
Melon said it well -- think whatever you want, but it's when you try and legislate your beliefs/prejudices, and use a religious document as justification, that it becomes Taliban-esque, though i still prefer the term "Christianist" as it's really prejudice in the guise of religion and offensive to many Christians.
So, it really boils down to the perceived religious connection to legislation?

And, that some religious beliefs are unacceptable because they are deemed prejudicial?
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Old 07-27-2005, 04:02 PM   #120
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Originally posted by melon
If you believe that your prejudices should be legislated, then yes, you'd be part of the "Christian Taliban." It would be no different than the KKK or the Nazis who are bigoted and actively push to make their bigotry law.
If believe your prejudices should be legislated (and all legislation contains some form of prejudice), to what group should be attribute that action?
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