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Old 07-22-2005, 05:57 AM   #46
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angelordevil,

i am unsure of whether or not you have played grand theft auto: san andreas. you mentioned you had seen a commercial, and yes, based on the commercial you might be left with the impression that the game is one of nothing more than 'titillation' (the inventor of commercials is resting happily in his grave).

go play the game. as hard as it is to believe, there are meaningful storylines and artistically valuable components to it. i know that may sound stupid, but it is true. significant effort was put into the production of that game such that it goes far beyond 'shooting cops'.

all this is not to say that there are not uses and abuses because surely there are. but the game does have significant enjoyment values for a great number of people and doesn't need to harm society any more than s club 7 or nicolas cage action films.
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Old 07-22-2005, 07:56 AM   #47
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Originally posted by echo0001
I vote parents.
I vote parents as well.

But a rating system is necessary to assist parents.
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:12 AM   #48
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So, we're back to a rehash of who should raise the kids--the government or the parents?

I vote parents.

It's not as simple as that...some parents are idiots. There has to be a better dialogue right across the board on this stuff. And hey, while we're at it, why not bring the kids into it? There's a revolutionary thought!
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:19 AM   #49
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This isn't about video games and this isn't about ratings. The Christian Taliban would rather prefer to ban them altogether.

It's like television. The Christian Taliban gets their V-chip and then they get their TV ratings and then they get their sub-ratings about the content. And they still bitch and moan about television.

The only way the Christian Taliban will ever be happy is if they have total global domination. Period.

Melon
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Old 07-22-2005, 09:24 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
This isn't about video games and this isn't about ratings. The Christian Taliban would rather prefer to ban them altogether.

It's like television. The Christian Taliban gets their V-chip and then they get their TV ratings and then they get their sub-ratings about the content. And they still bitch and moan about television.

The only way the Christian Taliban will ever be happy is if they have total global domination. Period.

Melon

remember: for the Christianists, anything less than the complete and total societal embracement and endorsement of their specific set of values is tantamount to religious discrimination.

if not for the separation of church and state and the proud secular tradition imbued in this country since its inception by the fiercely secularist founding fathers, then we would indeed have Taliban-esque elements in our society. instead of fascism with an Islamic face, we might have fascism with a Christian face. both are insults to each religion, as religion becomes the vehicle through which to assert control over the many by the few.
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Old 07-22-2005, 11:56 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil
It's not as simple as that...some parents are idiots.
We know. That's what we're saying, the parents out there that are idiots should stop being such and actually take control of their own children, and not expect everybody else under the sun to do it for them.

Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil
And hey, while we're at it, why not bring the kids into it? There's a revolutionary thought!
Agree with you here, if a kid goes and does something stupid, they should be punished. But that's the point-they should be punished. Nobody else. Just them.

And as pointed out regarding ratings, geez, we do have those all over the place nowadays, and there's still people who complain about the content of what they saw or heard! Well, you had the rating right there, you knew full well what you were getting into! So exactly what good are ratings doing again, now?

Once again, I see something with explosions on TV, that pretty much tells me violence will be involved, I don't need some little rating to tell me that, and I just personally think it's a bit sad that some people seem to think that they do need that.

Angela
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Old 07-22-2005, 12:51 PM   #52
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when i see the billboard near my house with the grand theft auto game advertisement...it shows a dark skinnned man with many tattoos in the picture. so either he's african american or mexican...gangbanger...

that freaking bugs me.
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:59 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



remember: for the Christianists, anything less than the complete and total societal embracement and endorsement of their specific set of values is tantamount to religious discrimination.

if not for the separation of church and state and the proud secular tradition imbued in this country since its inception by the fiercely secularist founding fathers, then we would indeed have Taliban-esque elements in our society. instead of fascism with an Islamic face, we might have fascism with a Christian face. both are insults to each religion, as religion becomes the vehicle through which to assert control over the many by the few.
Perhaps we need a hate forum for these suggestions.
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:04 PM   #54
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Perhaps we need a hate forum for these suggestions.


please.

you're smarter than that.

only through willfully small thinking can you even begin to equate the criticism of a small group of very vocal political activists with the myriad visions and versions of Christianity in this country alone.

not all Christians, in fact, not even most Christians, would ever send their child to an "ex-gay" camp. but some do. and therefore, i will battle them whenever and wherever i can.

and it must be nice not to be affected by this agenda.

some of us, however, have to keep our guard up.

but i know how you dislike victim mentalities...
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Old 07-22-2005, 03:08 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Perhaps we need a hate forum for these suggestions.
I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous (and this isn't directed entirely at you, nbc). Nothing Irvine said was hateful, he wasn't making a generalisation about all Christians, it was merely a comment on a small section of the Christian community who appear determined to impose their particular brand of morality on the rest of us.

Can we not accept that is is legitimate to criticise particular aspects of Christianity or particular proponents of Christianity in the same way it is legitimate to criticise particular aspects of Islam, Judaism or any other religion. It should be clear to everyone with so much as basic intelligence that terms like "Christofascists" "Christian Taliban" and "Christianists" don't refer to every person who adheres to Christianity, just as "Islamofascists" doesn't refer to every Muslim.
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Old 07-22-2005, 04:32 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
but i know how you dislike victim mentalities...
Not directed at anyone in particular...

...but I know that a lot of Christian conservatives are ingrained with the idea that they are an oppressed minority. I have heard this from some of my friends who were brought up in Christian conservative households.

Melon
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Old 07-22-2005, 08:24 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Not directed at anyone in particular...

...but I know that a lot of Christian conservatives are ingrained with the idea that they are an oppressed minority. I have heard this from some of my friends who were brought up in Christian conservative households.

Melon


as i said ... to some, the refusal of society to fully embrace and reflect a specific set of values is tantamount to discrimination.

could you just *imagine* the response if any other group had that attitude?
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Old 07-23-2005, 07:14 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
please.

you're smarter than that.

only through willfully small thinking can you even begin to equate the criticism of a small group of very vocal political activists with the myriad visions and versions of Christianity in this country alone.

not all Christians, in fact, not even most Christians, would ever send their child to an "ex-gay" camp. but some do. and therefore, i will battle them whenever and wherever i can.

and it must be nice not to be affected by this agenda.

some of us, however, have to keep our guard up.

but i know how you dislike victim mentalities...
please, you are not so naive.

You, Melon and I know what your special terms mean from our history on this board. I bet if we got together and discussed politics, you wouldn;t even need to use the terms with me.

But this is a public forum. To take the term Christian and morph it into a militant, repressive, naziesque term is unnecessary.

You have disagreements with certain policies or beliefs. I understand your disagreements. But the casual connection between Christians and the Taliban or facism is simply unrealistic, not based in fact and designed to be inflammatory.

This is not victimization of a topic. This is simply a call towards more rational discussion.




And can we please stop the senseless tit-for-tat comparissons with Islam.
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Old 07-23-2005, 07:21 AM   #59
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And can we please stop the senseless tit-for-tat comparissons with Islam.
It has nothing to do with "tit-for-tat comparisons." People are simply making the point that if it's acceptable for people to speak of Islamofascism then it must also be acceptable to speak of Christofascism. Why should one religion be immune from criticism? Either it's acceptable to make criticism of all religions or it's acceptable to make criticism of none.
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Old 07-23-2005, 07:22 AM   #60
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please, you are not so naive.

You, Melon and I know what your special terms mean from our history on this board. I bet if we got together and discussed politics, you wouldn;t even need to use the terms with me.

But this is a public forum. To take the term Christian and morph it into a militant, repressive, naziesque term is unnecessary.

You have disagreements with certain policies or beliefs. I understand your disagreements. But the casual connection between Christians and the Taliban or facism is simply unrealistic, not based in fact and designed to be inflammatory.

This is not victimization of a topic. This is simply a call towards more rational discussion.
i'm sorry you're misunderstanding the term. i'll try to explicate.

as you said, you know the term is not for you, nor even a majority of Christians. it is you (and a few others) who seek to make connections between yourselves and the very specific, very political group of people we are talking about who do possess, in the blueprints of their political designs, elements not unfamiliar with either fascism or the Taliban. i am pretty certain that neither Melon, or i, nor others would ever include you in that group, nor has anyone ever called you Christianist -- which is an adjective, not a noun. important distinction.

in fact, the use of the word "Christianist" is designed out of sensitivity, and also to actually elevate the debate via specificity, to those who are offended by the lumping together of all Christians. in fact, it is to say, in essence, that people like James Dobson are manipulating the word "Christian" for their own political purposes. hence, they are not "Christian," but they are "Christianist" -- just like an extremist is not a representative of Islam, but manipulates Islam for his own agenda, hence he's an "Islamist."
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