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Old 07-21-2005, 11:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Actually Dave, you completely missed the whole point of the controversy.

The game is rated MA - children under 18 are allowed to buy the game. However, Rockstar Games included content that would have earned an AO (adults only) rating - thus only people 18 and over could buy the game.

I agree completely

what is the big deal if it clearly marked

age 18 and over?

a while back I was dating someone with two young kids.

and I bought them a Xbox

just properly label the games.
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:37 AM   #32
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


This could also be used to describe anarchy.
at an extreme, yes, it could be.

applied reasonably it could be used to describe a nice society.
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Old 07-21-2005, 01:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


This could also be used to describe anarchy.


so you want government to regulate all aspects of life? where does that end? do we start telling people that only missionary style and twice a week between married people who have just brushed their teeth is the only legal form of sexual intercourse?

as a growing libertarian in the face of Bush's right-wing nanny state, anarchy sounds better.

i thought that a central tenent of conservatism was that the government that governs least governs best.
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Old 07-21-2005, 01:57 PM   #34
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to what Irvine and kobayashi said.

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The game is rated MA - children under 18 are allowed to buy the game. However, Rockstar Games included content that would have earned an AO (adults only) rating - thus only people 18 and over could buy the game.
And personally, I've always thought ratings/advisories for anything-movies, TV shows, video games, CDs-were stupid. All slapping an MA/R/NC-17 type of rating on something does is make kids who want to play the game/watch the movie or show/listen to the artist even more interested to do so. Forbidden stuff is enticing. That's something that's been proven throughout history. Hell, the Bible proves that with the apple story.

For one thing, there's 15 year olds who can handle violent movies better than 30 year olds. Age has nothing to do with your maturity level, your ability to handle seeing real-world situations. And for another, frankly, if I saw the commercials for this game on TV, and looked at the box and saw pictures of the game, and yet still felt that I needed a rating to tell me that it'd be violent and possibly sexual in nature, I'd be a real idiot.

Instead of having ratings, parents could simply look at the promos for movies or games or an artist's CD (or in the CD case, look online for the lyrics or something like that, or catch one of the artist's videos on TV when the kids aren't around), or watch or listen to the stuff themselves, and then decide if it's something worth letting their child indulge in.

But again, so long as a parent does their job and raises their kid to be a good person, I really wouldn't see why they'd need to worry about their kid watching or listening to anything. But whatever *Shrugs*.

Angela
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Old 07-21-2005, 02:46 PM   #35
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


But again, so long as a parent does their job and raises their kid to be a good person, I really wouldn't see why they'd need to worry about their kid watching or listening to anything. But whatever *Shrugs*.

Angela
The parent taking responsibility thing is valid, but it can't be the only solution. We live in a culture of violence, and it's out of control in my opinion. I don't advocate simple censorship, because that often end s up with strange family right's groups getting upset at the likes of Bono and his usage of the letter 'f". In short, that kind of censorship is misdirected.

But when we've got computer games with cop-killing, something needs to be addressed. It's as if the whole genre of games, and certain movies, has become depersonalized, removed from any human connection. It's got to start with the makers of these games. Why are they allowed by the manufacturer to release such hateful material? Also, the distributors, like Wal-mart, etc. have to take a greater responsibility. They are the critical link between supplier and consumer.

The whole idea that this game is ok, that any kind of control is tantamount to "Big Brother" keeping an eye on us
is rubbish. "Big Brother" is about restricting freedoms we all desire...and I'm willing to bet not all of us desire to blow away cops and bystanders.

This issue is about respect, or lack thereof, for human decency.
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Old 07-21-2005, 03:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil
But when we've got computer games with cop-killing, something needs to be addressed. It's as if the whole genre of games, and certain movies, has become depersonalized, removed from any human connection. It's got to start with the makers of these games. Why are they allowed by the manufacturer to release such hateful material? Also, the distributors, like Wal-mart, etc. have to take a greater responsibility. They are the critical link between supplier and consumer.
Disagree. Again, they're just making a product, it's up to us whether or not we want to buy it. We shouldn't blame them for our choices. And I highly doubt the makers of these games actually support this kind of activity. I could write a book about a serial killer who goes on a rampage, doesn't automatically mean I condone that kind of behavior. All they're doing, just like writers and musicians and artists, is making something that reflects what society is like. Sadly, this stuff does go on in society, and went on long before this game came about.

Ratings on games, censoring the games, banning the games, none of that will solve these problems we've got going on. In order to make these kinds of games disappear, we must go about fixing the problems in society that lead to crime and murder and the other kinds of things that are shown in these games. That way, video game makers will have no reason to depict this kind of thing in their games, and we'll go back to playing something like Mario Bros.

Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil
and I'm willing to bet not all of us desire to blow away cops and bystanders.

This issue is about respect, or lack thereof, for human decency.
Some people here, myself included, have played violent video games at some point and time in our lives. And we all still treat our fellow man with respect. Why? We realized that the game was just that-a game. A game that is not a promotion of what society should be like, but merely a depiction of what society is like. It may be a tasteless and vulgar game to some, yes. But it's still just a game nonetheless, and can only be bothersome if someone lets it be. A lot of people who play video games of this nature don't even play them for the sheer joy of watching people get shot or blown up or whatever. Some people play them because they learn coordination skills and strategy skills for any other games they may wish to play.

Angela
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Old 07-21-2005, 03:21 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




so you want government to regulate all aspects of life?
That's called "fascism". It was tried once before, somewhere over in Europe. As I recall, it didn't turn out too well.
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


All they're doing, just like writers and musicians and artists, is making something that reflects what society is like. Sadly, this stuff does go on in society, and went on long before this game came about.

Angela
You're calling the creators of this game artists? Come on! The best artists do indeed reflect what's out there in the ether...but they do it as social commentary, not for blatant and overt profit. You simply cannot say that credo holds true for these chumps. I've seen the ads for this game...it's catering and pandering to the youth market for no other purpose beyond mere titillation.

As well, you say we can't blame the makers of the game for "our" choices. Isn't this the very argument cigarette manufacturers have made for decades?
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
All they're doing, just like writers and musicians and artists, is making something that reflects what society is like. Sadly, this stuff does go on in society, and went on long before this game came about.
This jumps right into circular reasoning. People imitate what they see in the media. No one is responsible.
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:09 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil


You're calling the creators of this game artists? Come on! The best artists do indeed reflect what's out there in the ether...but they do it as social commentary, not for blatant and overt profit. You simply cannot say that credo holds true for these chumps. I've seen the ads for this game...it's catering and pandering to the youth market for no other purpose beyond mere titillation.

As well, you say we can't blame the makers of the game for "our" choices. Isn't this the very argument cigarette manufacturers have made for decades?
good points.
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:22 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil


As well, you say we can't blame the makers of the game for "our" choices. Isn't this the very argument cigarette manufacturers have made for decades?
Well it's true, isn't it? Anyway, I don't think video games contain any addictive substances (although my brother's hooked on em )

If the whole deal here is that there's material in the game that warrants a higher rating than it was given, that's understandable. I think the bigger question is why the criteria for rating these games considers sex so much worse than violence.
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Old 07-21-2005, 04:26 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil
You're calling the creators of this game artists?
No, I'm just saying they're in the business of making something for entertainment purposes, just like those other people. Whether or not they're considered artists is a personal opinion.

Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil
The best artists do indeed reflect what's out there in the ether...but they do it as social commentary, not for blatant and overt profit. You simply cannot say that credo holds true for these chumps.
How do you know for sure that the makers of this game aren't using it as social commentary? You don't know any more what their reasoning behind making this game is than I do.

And even so, you can make something that reflects what society is like without giving your personal views on society's actions and thoughts one way or the other.

Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil
I've seen the ads for this game...it's catering and pandering to the youth market for no other purpose beyond mere titillation.
Adults play these games, too. Adults are just as susceptible to be influenced by media as kids are. But yet I never hear anyone demanding to keep adults from this sort of thing. Why do people think only kids are at potential risk for that sort of thing?

Quote:
Originally posted by angelordevil
As well, you say we can't blame the makers of the game for "our" choices. Isn't this the very argument cigarette manufacturers have made for decades?
Yes, and I agree with them. They are just making a product, a legal one. You and I both have the choice to buy it or not buy it if we wish. I've been bombarded with cigarette ads my whole life. I've seen relatives smoke, I've been around friends' parents who smoke. And yet I haven't touched a cigarette, nor do I ever intend to. Why? Because I chose to not get involved in that sort of thing.

The cigarette manufacturers, the video game makers, the musicians, the TV show and movie producers, the beer makers, none of them are forcing you to buy their products, none of them are hypnotizing you into being sucked in to buy their things.

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
This jumps right into circular reasoning. People imitate what they see in the media. No one is responsible.
Not what I'm saying. There is somebody responsible in these cases, and you know who that is? The person who does the imitating. They chose to imitate what they saw or heard, nobody else made them do it, therefore, nobody else should be held responsible for their actions.

Angela
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Old 07-21-2005, 06:03 PM   #43
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While I haven't played the latest game in the series, I have played the other Grand Theft Auto games. And, to put it simply, they rule.



Miraculously, I do not kill people in real life.

I do, however, agree that only adults should be able to buy these types of games. If you're not over 18 and your parents say you can't play them, then tough luck. If you're not over 18 and your parents think it's okay for you to play them, then fine. In the end, it should be up to the parents.
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Old 07-22-2005, 12:50 AM   #44
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So, we're back to a rehash of who should raise the kids--the government or the parents?

I vote parents.

I cannot understand why people would trust an institution that brought us Vietnam, Watergate, Iran-Contra, Oval Office Sexcapades, the War on Drugs, the War in Iraq, etc., etc., ad nauseum, to raise their children for them, and choose what said children are allowed to see and hear, and, while we're on the subject of kids and government institutions, teach said kids about such weighty subjects as sex and religion (referring to the idea that The Bible and the Ten Commandments should be taught in public schools.)

I don't trust the government as far as I can throw the capitol building, but some people still insist that the government should raise their kids? Oh, come on, you lazy assholes--raise your own offspring and let the government get back to its real job; fucking things up.
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Old 07-22-2005, 02:23 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by echo0001
So, we're back to a rehash of who should raise the kids--the government or the parents?

I vote parents.

I cannot understand why people would trust an institution that brought us Vietnam, Watergate, Iran-Contra, Oval Office Sexcapades, the War on Drugs, the War in Iraq, etc., etc., ad nauseum, to raise their children for them, and choose what said children are allowed to see and hear, and, while we're on the subject of kids and government institutions, teach said kids about such weighty subjects as sex and religion (referring to the idea that The Bible and the Ten Commandments should be taught in public schools.)

I don't trust the government as far as I can throw the capitol building, but some people still insist that the government should raise their kids? Oh, come on, you lazy assholes--raise your own offspring and let the government get back to its real job; fucking things up.
.

If I had children right now, the thought of anyone in the current administration raising them...ergh, there's a scary thought.

Angela
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