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Old 07-04-2006, 12:54 PM   #1
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Horus/Jesus

Just stumbled across this Ancient Egyptian God named Horus. The parallels drawn between Horus and the life of Jesus are more than a little astounding!

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

and also http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BJesusandHorus74.htm

Hmm, the Bible is totally insipred and inerrant, (supposedly) that means it was not copied at ALL from any other sources, it is PURELY the word of God. These similiarities are quite conincidental I'd say! As a rational person, I would have to say that Christianity has plagarised from many other sources, in this case Horus (and most Christian rituals are indeed pagan as we all should know). What do you other RATIONAL Christians say about this? (After you read the similarities between Horus and Jesus, remember the Horus story is very old and dates many centuries before Jesus's time). Indubitabley, I'd have to say that these overwhelming coincidences can vindicate the notion that the Bible is not inspired and inerrant, anyone care to retort?
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Old 07-04-2006, 02:27 PM   #2
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I didn't realize Horus was a real live human being who lived and breathed and walked among us.

Spend about five minutes with the mythology and you'll realize how far removed the one is from the other.
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Old 07-04-2006, 03:43 PM   #3
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I have read "Jesus and the Lost Goddess" as well as "The Jesus Mysteries" - which go into detail about the similarities between many of the Mystery Cults and the story of Christ.

While these books are certainly entertaining, Christianity certainly has more differences from the religions than they have things in common.

All religions are going to have "some" things in common. The idea of a redeemer, or suffering servant, goes very far back. The Book of Isaiah wrote about a redeemer several hundred years before the Mystery Cults taught it - does that mean they (ironically) copied the "idea" from writings that predicted the arrival of Jesus Christ?
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Old 07-04-2006, 05:40 PM   #4
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Another thing regarding this subject - nobody denies that Christian holidays and festivals have pagan origin (Christmas in December, Easter in Spring...etc) But these holidays and traditions are not Biblical, they are simply cultural leftovers.

Also, listen/read to the words that Horus actually preached - aside from the discussions of there being an afterlife - there is precious little in common.

I was very fascinated by all forms of Gnosticism for several years. But the ides of esoteric and "secret" knowledge that only the wisest can perceive and be saved (the essence of Gnosticism) - goes against everything else Jesus Christ taught. Yes, some disciples “understood” what Jesus was saying before others, and even today, some verses require explanation from those who have studied the material at a greater length than the common person. That being said, nobody is saved by knowledge, they are saved by faith. That alone is the foremost reason that I leave Gnosticism as an intellectually entertaining read – and nothing more.

Moreover, isn't it possible that "Truth" was somehow imprinted on the hearts in every person, and many try/tried to express that Truth in art and religion? If Jesus Christ is the Son of God and everything about Him is literally true - wouldn't you think that perhaps God would "wet the soil" of these cultures in order that they would recognize Christ when He actually DID come?
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Old 07-04-2006, 09:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
I didn't realize Horus was a real live human being who lived and breathed and walked among us.

Spend about five minutes with the mythology and you'll realize how far removed the one is from the other.
Umm....I think the point I was alluding to was pretty clear, however everyone seems to have missed the point. The Horus Egyption God was obviously a Myth, he never walked among us....that's not the point. The point is the similarities between his life and Jesus's life are so INCREDIBLY astounding that any normal rational human would have to say beyond a trickle of doubt, that the early Christians copied the old story of Horus, did u read the links I provided you with...?
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Old 07-04-2006, 10:11 PM   #6
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Without either trying to defend or discredit this, I'll merely make an argument out of logic that will probably displease both sides.

The Zoroastrian religion was founded by a prophet named "Zarathushtra" (Greek: "Zoroaster"). In their scriptures, the "Avesta," there were two books on his life: an earlier text seen as likely being historical, and a later, mythical text on his life. Unfortunately, the earlier text is mostly lost, having been a victim of Alexander the Great's conquest of the Persian Empire.

This, however, illustrates my point: that Jesus could have simultaneously existed, while also being given mythical treatment in scriptural writings. Unfortunately, a dedication to accuracy was not a quality valued in civilizations until well over a millennium later. Back then, it would not have been illogical for Jesus' believers, convinced that He was the fulfillment of Messianic prophesies, to have embellished on details to get others to follow. After all, the logic would have been that, as long as people were believers, the details of how to convert people would have been irrelevant.

Considering that none of the New Testament reliably dates prior to A.D. 70, it is very logical that the Biblical writers would have filled in details from myth that they did not know. However, that is not to say that Jesus didn't exist, much in the same way that the historical "Zarathushtra" and the legendary "Zarathushtra" are vastly different.

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Old 07-04-2006, 10:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Without either trying to defend or discredit this, I'll merely make an argument out of logic that will probably displease both sides.

The Zoroastrian religion was founded by a prophet named "Zarathushtra" (Greek: "Zoroaster"). In their scriptures, the "Avesta," there were two books on his life: an earlier text seen as likely being historical, and a later, mythical text on his life. Unfortunately, the earlier text is mostly lost, having been a victim of Alexander the Great's conquest of the Persian Empire.

This, however, illustrates my point: that Jesus could have simultaneously existed, while also being given mythical treatment in scriptural writings. Unfortunately, a dedication to accuracy was not a quality valued in civilizations until well over a millennium later. Back then, it would not have been illogical for Jesus' believers, convinced that He was the fulfillment of Messianic prophesies, to have embellished on details to get others to follow. After all, the logic would have been that, as long as people were believers, the details of how to convert people would have been irrelevant.

Considering that none of the New Testament reliably dates prior to A.D. 70, it is very logical that the Biblical writers would have filled in details from myth that they did not know. However, that is not to say that Jesus didn't exist, much in the same way that the historical "Zarathushtra" and the legendary "Zarathushtra" are vastly different.

Melon
I agree that there is no doubt he existed. However, I firmly believe that he was in no way a God, this came about due to generations of heresay and chinese whispers.
If he was actually a God, and did all these wounderful things, there would have been some historical writings/scriptures written during his lifetime, not 30 years after! After all, Jesus exposed himself to soooooo many people (thousands and thousands in fact). Surely SOMEBODY would have written ANYTHING about him during his lifetime, but this is not the case.
Anyway, I agree that the mythology of Horus was copied by the Biblical writers to fill in all the many many gaps.
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Old 07-04-2006, 10:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon

Considering that none of the New Testament reliably dates prior to A.D. 70,
Melon
Actually - James is dated around 45 AD
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Old 07-04-2006, 10:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
Actually - James is dated around 45 AD
Well, I'll admit that what I said about the date was sloppy of me, so I decided to search for a comprehensive list of how the NT is thought to have been dated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible

* Gospel of Mark: +70 CE (conservative dating may be as early as 50)
* Gospel of Matthew: +80-90 CE (conservative dating in the 60s)
* Gospel of Luke: +80–90 CE (conservative dating in the 60s)
* Gospel of John: +95–110 CE (conservative dating in the late 80s to early 90s)
* Acts: +80–90 CE (conservative dating in 60s)
* James: ca.70–200 CE (conservative dating ca.45–62 CE)
* Colossians: +60 CE+
* Corinthians: +57 CE
* Ephesians: +65 CE
* Hebrews: +60–90 CE
* Epistles of John: +95-110 CE
* Jude: +70–100 CE (conservative dating in the 60s or earlier)
* First Peter: ca. 90–96 CE (conservative dating ca.64 CE)
* Second Peter: 100–140 CE (conservative dating ca.64 CE)
* Philemon: +56 CE
* Philippians: +57–62 CE
* Romans: +57–58 CE
* Galatians: +54–55 CE (conservative dating in the late 40s)
* Thessalonians: +50 CE
* Timothy: +70–100 CE (conservative dating ca.60)
* Titus: +70–100 CE (conservative dating ca.60)
* Revelation: +81–96 CE (dating in the 60s as a minority view among conservatives)

Either way, all of them are dated after the traditional date of Jesus' death, circa A.D. 30.

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Old 07-04-2006, 11:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Without either trying to defend or discredit this, I'll merely make an argument out of logic that will probably displease both sides.

The Zoroastrian religion was founded by a prophet named "Zarathushtra" (Greek: "Zoroaster"). In their scriptures, the "Avesta," there were two books on his life: an earlier text seen as likely being historical, and a later, mythical text on his life. Unfortunately, the earlier text is mostly lost, having been a victim of Alexander the Great's conquest of the Persian Empire.

This, however, illustrates my point: that Jesus could have simultaneously existed, while also being given mythical treatment in scriptural writings. Unfortunately, a dedication to accuracy was not a quality valued in civilizations until well over a millennium later. Back then, it would not have been illogical for Jesus' believers, convinced that He was the fulfillment of Messianic prophesies, to have embellished on details to get others to follow. After all, the logic would have been that, as long as people were believers, the details of how to convert people would have been irrelevant.

Considering that none of the New Testament reliably dates prior to A.D. 70, it is very logical that the Biblical writers would have filled in details from myth that they did not know. However, that is not to say that Jesus didn't exist, much in the same way that the historical "Zarathushtra" and the legendary "Zarathushtra" are vastly different.

Melon
no, melon. i don't think you get it. jesus was either a liar, lunatic, or savior. there is no possible way that the 4 gospels selected out of many more by a few guys in rome are not divinely inspired, inerrant, or in any way something other than 100% fact.
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Old 07-05-2006, 07:39 PM   #11
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I always find it interesting that atheists or the non-religious, given the array of religious belief floating out in this world; feel compelled to disprove the existence of Jesus. I wonder what is tugging at their hearts.
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Old 07-05-2006, 07:43 PM   #12
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
I always find it interesting that atheists or the non-religious, given the array of religious belief floating out in this world; feel compelled to disprove the existence of Jesus. I wonder what is tugging at their hearts.
Probably the frustration of seeing "believers" trying to legislate their seemingly irrational morality into law, while being simultaneously told that they, as "non-believers," don't matter.

"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." - George H.W. Bush, 1987.

Of course, then there's the added frustration of watching "believers" berate Muslim countries for enshrining their own morality into law. Hypocrites, anyone?

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Old 07-05-2006, 07:47 PM   #13
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Interesting analysis, but the member raising the issue is from Australia. The usual cut 'n paste arguments regarding GWB don't apply.
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Old 07-05-2006, 07:50 PM   #14
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Interesting analysis, but the member raising the issue is from Australia. The usual cut 'n paste arguments regarding GWB don't apply.
Completely besides my point. I'm sure you can think of plenty of people who would hold an identical opinion to him.

Likewise, there doesn't seem to be too many believers who would disagree with that contention openly.

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Old 07-05-2006, 09:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


"irrational morality"
Melon
Melon,

You do raise some interesting issues that Christians must address. However, in order to attempt to address your assertion - I need a clearer picture of the actual problem. Could you please explain to me what is irrational about Christian morality - as it is taught in the New Testament, not by George Bush?

If you have the time - could you please cite the NT passages that correspond to your grievance?

Thanks!
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