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Old 01-11-2007, 09:17 PM   #16
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It's progress in that the fleshy middle of public opinion will hopefully have more revulsion at the haters than gay sex.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:25 PM   #17
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oh you are speaking about convincing the fleshy middle!! i thought you were referring to the haters. i'm just saying that i think what the haters need is a change of heart, and i don't think that will happen if we slap them in the heads and call them morons.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:26 PM   #18
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I see nothing wrong with it. How does it hurt anyone?

And if by chance it is wrong, who are we to judge? Doesn't the bible say "He who is without sin cast the first stone"?
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:38 PM   #19
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The bible says a lot of stuff but then again so does the TV times and that aint always right.

In my opnion if your for it you must be for same sex marriages, and laws that give same sex couples the same rights as hetrosexual couples.

If your against those laws your no better than the people that spit in their faces.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:42 PM   #20
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Well, since I am gay, then I'm for it. Still have to tell the family though, which is going to be hard since they are construvites (know I spelled that wrong). But my friends still accepted me, after I told them, so at lease I have them for support.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:44 PM   #21
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good luck tellin your folks. you have us for support too
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami
oh you are speaking about convincing the fleshy middle!! i thought you were referring to the haters. i'm just saying that i think what the haters need is a change of heart, and i don't think that will happen if we slap them in the heads and call them morons.
Their never going to change, but they can be rhetorically castrated.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Green Eyes
Well, since I am gay, then I'm for it. Still have to tell the family though, which is going to be hard since they are construvites (know I spelled that wrong). But my friends still accepted me, after I told them, so at lease I have them for support.




hope all is going well for you.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:52 PM   #24
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Their never going to change, but they can be rhetorically castrated.




one can see this process happen in FYM all the time.

and when you dig through the FYM archives, you'll see remarkable growth in acceptance since, say, 2002.
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Old 01-11-2007, 09:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Their never going to change, but they can be rhetorically castrated.
you have a way with words.
you might be surprised though. despite my father's usual conservative opinions, he didn't mind me inviting one of my gay friends over for thanksgiving. My friend couldn't make it , and I don't think my dad is 100% accepting yet, but I was happy he was at least willing to invite my friend to his home and have him over for dinner. Baby steps. I'm still workin on him.
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:05 PM   #26
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I bet he would of thrown away the cutelry and plates after though

Something my grandad would do that
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:08 PM   #27
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I bet he would of thrown away the cutelry and plates after though

Something my grandad would do that
nah, he's not that bad...though, he probably would have 5 years ago.

but, he would've probably said something absurd after my friend left, like "he's such a nice guy! that's a shame he is gay. hopefully someday he will grow out of it"

...or something.
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Their never going to change, but they can be rhetorically castrated.
I've personally seen several people have a "change of heart," and usually it happened because they met some gay people who were patient enough to give them a chance to hear and think about what it's like to be gay, to become aware of oneself as gay, and to experience the isolation and animosity that so many gay people do socially. Not because someone ridiculed or "rhetorically castrated" them. It's true not everyone will change but you can't tell in advance who will.

In general there are people on any "side" who are really more looking for an excuse to piss on people than anything else and call it standing up for something. Unfortunately for them, other people do notice that and draw conclusions accordingly. I've heard so many older people say that a turning point in the Civil Rights Movement for them was seeing the televised footage of Bull Connor setting attack dogs and firehoses on quietly praying adult and child protestors at Birmingham in 1963. It's very, very sad that it took seeing cruelty against good people that stark to bring the moral urgency of the issue home for them, may it never happen again here but I think the lesson from that is broadly applicable to all kinds of civil rights issues. It's good and necessary to stay motivated and persistent about it, but one should also seek to embody the attributes one is faulting other people for not having, and not falsely externalize them by attributing their presence or absence to membership or lack of it in some social group or another; understanding what it means to be a compassionate person is much more complicated than that. Unfortunately freedom carries with it the temptation to use its devices against other people and sadly there are some limits to what can be done about that; but reacting to that impasse with hatred is a recipe for an increasingly divided society not an increasingly tolerant one.
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511






one can see this process happen in FYM all the time.

and when you dig through the FYM archives, you'll see remarkable growth in acceptance since, say, 2002.
You got me. I was never "against" gay people, but I didn't really care/wasn't all that sympathetic until I became good friends with someone gay and learned how he is treated by his own family. Also, I'm big on the constitution and the whole idea of individual and EQUAL rights, especially where legal and financial matters for couples is concerned. If people are so grossed out by homosexuality they think it's wrong, fine (well, not fine, but fine for them to be weird like that), but that's no excuse to support legislative discrimination.
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Old 01-11-2007, 10:45 PM   #30
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yolland to my rescue!!!!

you're my hero
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