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Old 03-06-2006, 06:26 PM   #1
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HomoSexuality

Ok I have some questions.

--If a person dislikes gay's, lesbians and transgender they are labled homophobic or a bigot. So does that mean islam and christianity fall under that category?

What about people who were born in the earlier centuries? Did they believe that homosexuality was a disease or someone wanting to be gay or lesbian or transgender?


I just want to get some input on this. If you have other things you want to add go ahead.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:31 PM   #2
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Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by Justin24
[B]Ok I have some questions.

--If a person dislikes gay's, lesbians and transgender they are labled homophobic or a bigot. So does that mean islam and christianity fall under that category?
Yup. The conservative versions, at least.

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What about people who were born in the earlier centuries? Did they believe that homosexuality was a disease or someone wanting to be gay or lesbian or transgender?
They sure did. It was a crime punishable by instant execution if you were caught openly doing anything homosexual.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:32 PM   #3
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Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Yup. The conservative versions, at least.

whats the liberal version.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:33 PM   #4
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Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by DaveC

They sure did. It was a crime punishable by instant execution if you were caught openly doing anything homosexual.
You might want to tell the ancient Greeks about that one.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:37 PM   #5
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Re: Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
You might want to tell the ancient Greeks about that one.
True. I think persecution didn't start until the rise of christianity and islam.
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Old 03-06-2006, 06:46 PM   #6
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Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by Justin24
Ok I have some questions.

--If a person dislikes gay's, lesbians and transgender they are labled homophobic or a bigot. So does that mean islam and christianity fall under that category?
Without a doubt.

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What about people who were born in the earlier centuries? Did they believe that homosexuality was a disease or someone wanting to be gay or lesbian or transgender?
The biggest problem with answering this question is that the definitions have changed. In Biblical times, most same-sex relations were in the context of pederasty (old man, teenage boy) or idolatrous temple cult practices. In both cases, we were essentially dealing with bisexual practices, as adults in both instances were expected to marry the opposite sex. As such, it was always seen as a "choice" that otherwise heterosexual people made in lust.

Of course, marriage was seen as more of a business contract until the 19th century, where love was unimportant, so having side affairs was not uncommon, and more than one Roman emperor loved their teenage slave boy more than their legal wife.

Complicating this even further is that these practices were all wiped out in the latter part of the Roman Empire, before the rise of modern vernacular languages. As such, when encountered with an obsolete word from a dead language, a lot of religions just inserted their prejudice and assumed that it translated as "homosexuality" as we know it today.

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Old 03-06-2006, 07:00 PM   #7
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Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by melon


Without a doubt.

Melon
But what if it's there religious belife. You cant help that. If a person is gay they cant help being happy with who they are. If they were born gay are proud of it good for them. If a person chooses to be muslim or christian and has those beliefs good for them, but when they die will it really be good for them.

I am sure gays and lesbians have the same hate as do muslims and christians.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:12 PM   #8
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Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by Justin24
--If a person dislikes gay's, lesbians and transgender they are labled homophobic or a bigot. So does that mean islam and christianity fall under that category?
Theologically speaking (regarding Christianity, I can't speak for Islam), there is a disconect in the way you phrased the question. Scripture does not say "dislike those who are gay". It only says that homosexual acts are sin. A sin no different than all the others spelled out in Scripture.

How people respond to Scripture would shed light on how you want to label them.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:16 PM   #9
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There is always a "bad apple in the bunch" and as nbcrusader stated the sin is in the act itself. Act should be a key word not hate, or discriminate.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:23 PM   #10
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Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by nbcrusader
It only says that homosexual acts are sin.
It doesn't even really say that. People have just connected dots with ambiguously written archaic words from dead languages.

But pretty much all of it is consistent with the idea of same-sex relations being viewed as rape, idolatry, or pederasty, none of which reflects homosexuality of today.

Anyway, how Christianity treats same-sex relations would be equivalent to me taking the destruction of Gibeah, when God destroyed the city after a gang raped and dismembered a female concubine, and taken that as meaning that all heterosexual acts are sin.

But, as always, minorities are rarely given the nuance that the majority grants itself. What I take away from the Bible is that same-sex rape, idolatry, and pederasty are wrong.

Melon
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:28 PM   #11
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Re: Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by Justin24


But what if it's there religious belife. You cant help that.

Of course they can help that. Beliefs are just that beliefs. Your beliefs, if you are a healthy minded person, should change with time.

There were a dozen catholic priests in Quebec that sent a letter to the Vatican urging them to reconsider the stance on Gays becoming priests.

They have seen a injustice and have tryed to change the beliefs of the church. They have 'helped' in that way.

Dont get caught in the trap of : Its my beliefs defense because its cowardly.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:43 PM   #12
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They are wrong because they are sins... As God told Moses Lev:18:22 "do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, that is detestable, that i from the old testement.


in the new testement: Cor 1 6:9

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be decieved. Neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor adulterers not male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders not theives not the greedy nor the drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So basically it is saying that if you commit any of the above acts, which are sinful you will not go to heaven until you are redeemed.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:47 PM   #13
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And who exactly do these behaviours hurt
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER
They are wrong because they are sins... As God told Moses Lev:18:22 "do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, that is detestable, that i from the old testement.


in the new testement: Cor 1 6:9

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be decieved. Neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor adulterers not male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders not theives not the greedy nor the drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So basically it is saying that if you commit any of the above acts, which are sinful you will not go to heaven until you are redeemed.
Funny...whatever I write on this subject, I always get the same old pathetic Bible verses.

Remember when I mentioned archaic terms with no comparable word in modern vernacular languages? You've pretty much recited just that.

The Leviticus passage is ambiguous, because the Hebrew says:

"Ish shall not lie with zakar as with ishah. It is toe'vah."

The archaic term in question is "zakar." If it really meant to say that man should not lie with another man, it would have said "ish" twice. Instead, "zakar" could be a word in reference to a temple prostitute--maybe even a female temple prostitute. Or maybe none of the above. We don't know, so Bible translators inserted their bias hundreds of years ago. But even if it was a male temple prostitute, which was common in pagan temple cults, it goes back to square one: idolatry.

Secondly, "toe'vah" is a phrase that referred to Jewish purity codes, meaning that the word "abomination" or "detestable" is a hyperbolic translation. It's essentially a phrase of ritual taboo.

Even then, even conservative Protestant interpretations of Acts 15 interpret it to mean a revocation of the purity codes of Mosaic Law (despite the fact that the written text clearly revokes the whole damn thing, minus three archaic concepts involving blood mixing and eating food offered to idols).

Corinthians 1...it's such a joke that it's not even funny. Wanna know how the homophobic old Catholic Church interprets that passage?

Quote:
The Greek word translated as boy prostitutes [translated above as "male prostitutes] may refer to catamites, i.e., boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the "cupbearer of the gods," whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated Sodomites [translated above as "homosexual offenders"] refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys. See similar condemnations of such practices in Romans 1:26-27; 1 Tim 1:10.
So, really, I'm back to square one again: idolatry with the cult of Ganymede and pederasty.

Melon
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Old 03-06-2006, 09:46 PM   #15
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Re: Re: Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by bonoman



Dont get caught in the trap of : Its my beliefs defense because its cowardly.
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