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Old 03-06-2006, 09:47 PM   #16
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It's all in the translation baby!!!!!!

People might actually translate it to mean what they want because they were biased?

WHAT?

LOL
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:08 PM   #17
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Re: Re: Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Dont get caught in the trap of : Its my beliefs defense because its cowardly.
That's not saying much. Each side is using the "its my beliefs" defense.
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:27 PM   #18
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They are wrong because they are sins... As God told Moses Lev:18:22 "do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, that is detestable, that i from the old testement.


in the new testement: Cor 1 6:9

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be decieved. Neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor adulterers not male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders not theives not the greedy nor the drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

So basically it is saying that if you commit any of the above acts, which are sinful you will not go to heaven until you are redeemed.


or, you could just listen to your conscience, and understand that Scripture requires human interpretation AND reflects the biases and prejudices of the authors (as all texts do), and you can look around you and realize that gay people are human and their "acts" are every bit as integral to who they are as they are to you, and you can get to know gay people and understand that homosexuality is just the same as heterosexuality only with the same gender, and you can thusly arrive at the conclusion that the worst way to justify homophobia is with Scripture.
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:31 PM   #19
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by nbcrusader


That's not saying much. Each side is using the "its my beliefs" defense.


so let's stop believing and start thinking and use our eyes and ears and brains and arrive at the thoroughly rational conclusion that gay people are people and it seems pretty much impossible to think that loving god who made gay people in his image as much as he made straight people in his image would then make said "acts" that distinguish gay people from straight people permissible for some, but not for others.

i love being reduced to acts. if you (the Royal "you", not NBC) look at me and all you can see is buttsex, then you've got bigger problems with God to worry about.
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:48 PM   #20
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by Irvine511
i love being reduced to acts. if you (the Royal "you", not NBC) look at me and all you can see is buttsex, then you've got bigger problems with God to worry about.
I agree with you here.
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:08 PM   #21
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I was just stating where it comes from I didn't write it, I do however believe in the writings from the bible....

Just because I am a believer does not mean I discriminate because I do not under any circumstances to anyone whatsoever.

Whatever sins people commit including myself, the only person they have to answer to is God.

I do not judge a book by its cover at all.

and for the record, I have gay friends and gay family members....so I am not out of a loop.

I am not going to stand here and say because thats what the bible says....people will have to answer someday and its not to me, and no we ourselves should not take it upon ourselves to hand out the punishment for the sins cited in those verses.

Funny, how I truly believe in Coexisting and it never seems to work out on this web site not matter what you say.....


So back to square one, just trying to help with answering the questions....and gee I feel a little discrimated against because...
of what I said
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:17 PM   #22
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In the course of "converting" from Orthodox to Conservative Judaism, I read dozens and dozens of responsa (rabbinic debates) concerning homosexuality in general and the Leviticus passages in particular. Some were reflective and meta-ethical in tone; others were narrowly linguistic and sometimes veered into outright sophistry. I don't really see the point in reviewing all them here, but just out of curiosity, I'll toss out one of the unspoken background concerns that haunts all Jewish debates on this topic, which I imagine is to some extent relevant for Christians too.

Once you've accepted in principle that the relevant Biblical passages need not constitute a blanket ban on all homosexual acts, and that the range of potential of homosexual relationships as we understand them today was lost on the original sources--where do you go from there in defining what a religiously observant homosexual relationship might look like? This problem does not exist to any significant degree for heterosexual marriages--you can still observe the most ancient precepts of your faith pertaining to such relationships, while at the same time subscribing to far newer views of "heterosexuality" as union between free and autonomous individuals pursuing romantic love and personal fulfillment through mutually entered commitments, blah blah blah etc. etc. etc. But the analogous precedents are simply not there for homosexual relationships. What would an observant Jewish gay marriage look like? An observant Catholic one? Does or should it change anything about sex before or outside of marriage? About modesty in dress and acts? About which partner is responsible for overseeing which aspects of children's moral and spiritual development (e.g., would one partner need to be designated a "mother" and the other a "father" for purposes of observance)? Would there be any danger of creating a new set of double standards, where gay couples would be held to a different standard in various ways than straight couples?
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER
nor the drunkards
Looks like we're all in the same boat anyway.
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Old 03-07-2006, 12:11 AM   #24
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where do you go from there in defining what a religiously observant homosexual relationship might look like?

Like anyone of us.....no matter race, or color, or culture.


and yes Earnie Shavers we are all in the same boat.
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Old 03-07-2006, 12:15 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




or, you could just listen to your conscience, and understand that Scripture requires human interpretation AND reflects the biases and prejudices of the authors (as all texts do), and you can look around you and realize that gay people are human and their "acts" are every bit as integral to who they are as they are to you, and you can get to know gay people and understand that homosexuality is just the same as heterosexuality only with the same gender, and you can thusly arrive at the conclusion that the worst way to justify homophobia is with Scripture.


Gee, thanks for clearing that up, I don't think in my 40 years of life I new the definition of homosexuality
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by JCOSTER




Gee, thanks for clearing that up, I don't think in my 40 years of life I new the definition of homosexuality

terrific! now you see that it's unacceptable to discriminate on the basis of homosexuality and to view being gay and having a gay relationship as sinful is logically and theologically absurd! so there's no need to go around quoting Leveticus and Corinthians because they have nothing to do with modern understandings of homosexuality.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:21 AM   #27
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I agree with you here.


what about the first part?

does it not make sense that it is entirely illogical for a god to make gay people, and then prohibt them from creating adult romantic relationships?
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Old 03-07-2006, 12:50 PM   #28
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Originally posted by yolland
Once you've accepted in principle that the relevant Biblical passages need not constitute a blanket ban on all homosexual acts, and that the range of potential of homosexual relationships as we understand them today was lost on the original sources--where do you go from there in defining what a religiously observant homosexual relationship might look like? ... But the analogous precedents are simply not there for homosexual relationships. What would an observant Jewish gay marriage look like? An observant Catholic one? Does or should it change anything about sex before or outside of marriage? About modesty in dress and acts? About which partner is responsible for overseeing which aspects of children's moral and spiritual development (e.g., would one partner need to be designated a "mother" and the other a "father" for purposes of observance)? Would there be any danger of creating a new set of double standards, where gay couples would be held to a different standard in various ways than straight couples?
Those sound like pretty manageable challenges for a religion that's been around over 4000 years. It would probably help once homosexual marraiges are permitted in societies, thereby allowing religious leaders to view the formation of "analogous precedents." Sure, it may take a few generations and a few hundred years, but religions, if they have a progressive enough spirit, can catch up.
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Old 03-07-2006, 01:33 PM   #29
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Re: HomoSexuality

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Originally posted by Justin24
What about people who were born in the earlier centuries? Did they believe that homosexuality was a disease or someone wanting to be gay or lesbian or transgender?
Actualy, if you go to Bible.com, you find as an answer to homosexuality that a demonic spirit has taken pocessin of one's mind to make him/her do sins.

I hope that answers your question... People were brainwashed by religion in the past. Today, unfortunatly, some are still into that state.
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Old 03-07-2006, 01:45 PM   #30
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They may be in a state of not accepting that person, but the belife in a demon taking over is now in the past. Homophobia will be around forever. You can't change people. God will still love those people. Jesus would forgive the homophobic people and would ask each of us to love one another no matter what.
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