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Old 06-23-2006, 08:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i suppose this is one good thing about the decentralization of Al-Qaeda -- when you have groups with little or no central command, and groups that are "inspired" by AQ as opposed to actually employed by them, then you get a good watering down of the talent pool, which makes them much easier to catch.
If history is anything to go by regular terrorists are generally dumb.
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Old 06-23-2006, 10:44 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Irvine511






would you rather not know your constitutional rights are being violated?
Privacy vs security. It's too nice of a weekend to open that can-of-worms.
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Old 06-24-2006, 10:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
If history is anything to go by regular terrorists are generally dumb.
I have yet to see the news on the suspects, but I heard a comment on the radio that it was likely they couldn't find the Sears Tower.
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Old 12-15-2007, 10:49 AM   #19
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An update:

Quote:
Sears Tower Bomb Plot Case Falls Apart

MIAMI (Dec. 13) -- In a stinging defeat for the Bush administration, one of seven Miami men accused of plotting to join forces with al-Qaida to blow up Chicago's Sears Tower was acquitted Thursday, and the case against the rest ended in a hung jury.

Federal prosecutor Richard Gregorie said the government planned to retry the six next year, and the judge said a new jury would be picked starting Jan. 7.

The White House had seized on the case to illustrate the dangers of homegrown terrorism and trumpet the government's post-Sept. 11 success in infiltrating and smashing terrorism plots in their earliest stages.

Lyglenson Lemorin, 32, had been accused of being a "soldier" for alleged ringleader Narseal Batiste. He buried his face in his hands when his acquittal was read.

....

Defense lawyers contended that the informant and an overzealous FBI were responsible for pushing the alleged conspiracy along.

"This was all written, directed and produced by the FBI," said defense attorney Albert Levin.
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Old 12-16-2007, 08:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511






would you rather not know your constitutional rights are being violated?
I only know that these arrests ended up saving hundreds of lives. If the criminal's rights were violated.....so be it.
What rights do they have anyway if they wanted to destroy the very country that protects them?

You can't have it both ways.....it's like the guy who killed his parents and pleaded for mercy because he was an orphan......
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:40 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


I only know that these arrests ended up saving hundreds of lives.
They were not found guilty. I agree with the defense attorney that this was largely a manufactured case (by the Gonzales DOJ).
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:45 AM   #22
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Originally posted by ntalwar


They were not found guilty. I agree with the defense attorney that this was largely a manufactured case (by the Gonzales DOJ).
Then why were they brought to trial in the first place if there was no evidence against them?
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:54 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


Then why were they brought to trial in the first place if there was no evidence against them?
They were brought to trial for political purposes most likely.
There was no physical evidence found.
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:57 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


Then why were they brought to trial in the first place if there was no evidence against them?

Because after the government had infringed on their constitutional rights, they had to prove that they did so with good reason, but unfortunately for the government this didn't work out.
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono


Then why were they brought to trial in the first place if there was no evidence against them?
This sounds dangerously close to:

"Well if they were arrested then they must be guilty."
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by AchtungBono
I only know that these arrests ended up saving hundreds of lives. If the criminal's rights were violated.....so be it.
What rights do they have anyway if they wanted to destroy the very country that protects them?
Are you ... are you serious?

Read these words: Innocent until proven guilty.

Your argument there literally is: the ends justify the means. Problem: That's not how the country works. Why? Because (drum roll, please) ... OFTEN TIMES THE ARRESTS ARE WRONG.

I can't believe that you need to be told this.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:48 PM   #27
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I've come to understand that AchtungBono doesn't hold the rule of law, civil rights, or, you know, the core principles a country was founded on, in high regard.
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Old 12-16-2007, 10:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar
They were brought to trial for political purposes most likely.
There was no physical evidence found.
*Nods* Sadly, this happens sometimes. Not everyone who's arrested or in jail or whatever is guilty. And yet, for some bizarre reason, they're still there.

AchtungBono, if you found yourself in these guys' shoes, wouldn't you want to do everything in your power to get a fair and just trial?

Angela
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:59 PM   #29
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That's the thing though. Those who have little sympathy for the wrongfully accused are almost always of the opinion that they themselves are law abiding citizens so these things would never happen to them.

The inability to put yourself in another's shoes has never been a boon to civilized society.
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:11 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
That's the thing though. Those who have little sympathy for the wrongfully accused are almost always of the opinion that they themselves are law abiding citizens so these things would never happen to them.
You're right-I thought of that as I was typing my post. Never hurts to ask, though, just to see what the answer might be. Sometimes you need to do that to remind people to look at it from another perspective.

Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
The inability to put yourself in another's shoes has never been a boon to civilized society.
Too true .

Angela
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