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Old 09-03-2005, 05:52 PM   #91
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There is a difference between stealing food and stealing a tv. Nothing the President said indicates what is implied in the statements made by Kanye.
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Old 09-03-2005, 07:33 PM   #92
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i think what Kanye was getting at is that black people seem less than human, almost expendable in the eyes of the federal government, a government that is now run by the Republican Party and by Bush.

i was hearing on the news that there are rumors going around amongst the poor of Ward 9 (i believe it's called) that the relief workers are trying to starve out the still trapped residents. of course, this is false.

but stop and think: why would a poor, inner-city African-American believe such a thing?

could it be due to a history of legalized segregation, racist housing codes, trigger-happy cops, and living a life where the lines between the haves and the have nots is very, very easy to see, because those that have are white and those that have not are black?

i find it hard to condemn or laugh off inner city urban myths that trace government conspiracies as marvelous as any perpetrated by white guys in Idaho taking pot shots at black World Police Helicopters and refering to the TV as the "electric jew."

these inner city urban myths sweep from AIDS being a US government invention to crack being invented by the CIA to the governmental assassination of MLK. do i, personally, believe any of these conspiracy theories?

no, absolutely not.

but i'm not black, i'm not poor, i don't live in the inner city, and i don't have hundreds of years of a history of being kicked in the face and spat upon by white people weighing on my shoulders.

what Kanye said might not be factual (though i'm not entirely convinced of that ... it wouldn't surprise me if Bush were genuinely perplexed as to why, when told to evacuate, people didn't simply pack up the Range Rover, put some Poland Spring in the back, get the kids their Game Boys and drive to the 2nd home), however what Kanye said has much truth to it.
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Old 09-03-2005, 07:41 PM   #93
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Originally posted by Irvine511

but i'm not black, i'm not poor, i don't live in the inner city, and i don't have hundreds of years of a history of being kicked in the face and spat upon by white people weighing on my shoulders.



We here are overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly better off that the majority of those people who could not find the means to evacuate.

Kanye and the outraged at the Superdome have a certain perception of their position in the hierarchy and the chain of command. And they see themselves at the bottom. They are not all insane, they are not hallucinating; this perception is built on decades of life experience.

Who am I to tell them that the way they see the world is incorrect?
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Old 09-03-2005, 07:47 PM   #94
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Bush opposed increasing federal funding to repair New Orleans' levee system TWICE last year.

No wonder Kanye's so pissed! You can't blame him at all.
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Old 09-03-2005, 07:50 PM   #95
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Bush is in the worst political trouble of his career. This story just keeps getting bigger...

From the New York Times:

September 4, 2005
As White House Anxiety Grows, Bush Tries to Quell Political Crisis
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
and ADAM NAGOURNEY

WASHINGTON, Sept. 3 - Faced with one of the worst political crises of his administration, President Bush abruptly overhauled his September schedule on Saturday as the White House scrambled to gain control of a situation that Republicans said threatened to undermine Mr. Bush's second-term agenda and the party's long-term ambitions.

In a sign of the mounting anxiety at the White House, Mr. Bush made a rare Saturday appearance in the Rose Garden before live television cameras to announce that he was dispatching additional active-duty troops to the Gulf Coast. He struck a more somber tone than he had at times on Friday during a daylong tour of the disaster region, when he had joked at the airport in New Orleans about the fun he had had in his younger days in Houston. His demeanor on Saturday was similar to that of his most somber speeches after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"The magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities," said Mr. Bush, slightly exaggerating the stricken land area. "The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans. And that is unacceptable."

The president was flanked by his high military and emergency command: Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

As Mr. Bush spoke, Vice President Dick Cheney and Karl Rove, the president's senior political adviser, listened on the sidelines, as did Dan Bartlett, the counselor to the president and Mr. Bush's overseer of communications strategy. Their presence underscored how seriously the White House is reacting to the political crisis it faces.

"Where our response is not working, we'll make it right," Mr. Bush said, as Mr. Bartlett, with a script in his hand, followed closely.

His speech came as analysts and some Republicans warned that the White House's response to the crisis in New Orleans, which has been widely seen as slow and ineffectual, could further undermine Mr. Bush's authority at a time when he was already under fire, endangering his Congressional agenda.

Mr. Chertoff said Saturday: "Not an hour goes by that we do not spend a lot of time thinking about the people who are actively suffering. The United States, as the president has said, is going to move heaven and earth to rescue, feed, shelter" victims of the storm.

The White House said Mr. Bush would return to Louisiana and Mississippi on Monday, scrapping his plans for a Labor Day address in Maryland. The rest of Mr. Bush's schedule next week was in flux.

The White House also canceled a major visit to Washington next week by President Hu Jintao of China. In a statement issued on Saturday, the White House said both Mr. Hu and Mr. Bush had agreed that "in the present circumstances, it was best not to have" the meeting, which would have demanded much of the president's attention over the next days on growing difficulties between the United States and China over trade frictions, North Korea's nuclear program and China's military buildup.

The last-minute overhaul of the president's plans reflected what analysts and some Republicans said was a long-term threat to Mr. Bush's presidency created by the perception that the White House had failed to respond to the crisis. Several said the political fallout over the hurricane could complicate a second-term agenda that includes major changes to Social Security, the tax code and the immigration system.

"This is very much going to divert the agenda," said Tom Rath, a New Hampshire Republican with ties to the White House. "Some of this is momentary. I think the Bush capital will be rapidly replenished if they begin to respond here."

Donald P. Green, a professor of political science at Yale University, said: "The possibility for very serious damage to the administration exists. The unmistakable conclusion one would draw from this was this was a massive administration failure."

And Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker, urged Mr. Bush to quickly propose a rebuilding plan for New Orleans and the rest of the Gulf Coast, arguing that an ambitious gesture could restore his power in Congress.

"If it's done right, it adds energy to the rest of his agenda," Mr. Gingrich said. "If it's done wrong, it swamps the rest of his agenda."

The silence of many prominent Democrats reflects their conclusion that the president is on treacherous political ground and that attacking him would permit the White House to dismiss the criticism as partisan politics-as-usual, a senior Democratic aide said.

Scott McClellan, the White House press secretary, disputed the notion that Mr. Bush's long-term political viability was endangered and said Saturday that he was confident the administration would be able to push ahead successfully with its second-term agenda. "There are a number of priorities, and we will address all of them," he said.

For all the enormity of the destruction and the lingering uncertainty about how many years it will take to "rebuild the great city of New Orleans," as Mr. Bush said in his remarks on Saturday, some Republicans suggested that the impact could prove fleeting in this age of fast-moving events, and that Mr. Bush's visit to the region on Friday had helped some in addressing concerns about his response.

"Next Tuesday the Roberts hearings start, and that's going to occupy a significant part of the daily coverage," said Richard N. Bond, a former Republican chairman, referring to the Supreme Court confirmation hearings of Judge John G. Roberts Jr.

But others said the damage could prove enduring, and they warned that the inevitable battery of official investigations into what went wrong could further erode support for the war in Iraq if it turned out that the deployment of National Guard units to Iraq had contributed to the slow response. They said any thought that memories of New Orleans will fade would be checked by gas prices that spiked as Louisiana refineries shut down, particularly given that there was already evidence that rising gas prices were hurting Mr. Bush's political standing.

Beyond that, some Republicans said the perception among some blacks that the White House had been slow to respond because so many victims were poor and African-American undercut what had been one of the primary initiatives of the new Republican chairman, Ken Mehlman: making an explicit appeal for support among black voters, a constituency that has traditionally been overwhelmingly Democratic.

"Given the racial component of this, and given the current political environment, there certainly seems to be a high level of risk to this story," said a Republican Party official, who, citing the concern among party officials about the criticism, would only discuss the question on the condition of not being identified.

But Mr. Bush, reflecting concern within the White House about the president's standing among blacks, notably said in his radio address that "we have a responsibility to our brothers and sisters all along the Gulf Coast, and we will not rest until we get this right and the job is done."

Both Republicans and Democrats noted that the reaction to the crisis has been nothing like what happened after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, when both parties joined in a bipartisan show of unity in the face of a clear and identifiable outside threat.

Hurricane Katrina struck at a time, they said, when Mr. Bush was already in a weakened state, with his approval rating in many national polls at the lowest level of his presidency and his political capital in Washington diminishing.

The shifting dynamics on Capitol Hill was clear as Congress returned to Washington to allocate billions of dollars for the relief effort. Congressional leaders suggested that the White House needed to reconsider its legislative agenda. "This is not going to help Social Security," said Representative Rahm Emanuel, Democrat of Illinois. "And it was already on its last legs."

Representative Roy Blunt of Missouri, the Republican whip, said it would be a mistake to abandon efforts to reduce the estate tax, arguing that was precisely what the economy needed to grow. But he said he thought the White House might reconsider what it wanted this fall.

"I think the administration needs to be thinking about what their agenda is for the fall," he said. "And I'm sure there will be some re-evaluation."

Richard W. Stevenson contributed reporting for this article.
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Old 09-03-2005, 08:51 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by LyricalDrug
Bush opposed increasing federal funding to repair New Orleans' levee system TWICE last year.
Exactly. One has to wonder if the levee system would have gotten more funding had it backed up to a predominately white neighborhood. I've never understood why some people don't want to take a long look at the nature of race relations in the South.

That said, I honestly don't believe that our goverment would allow a ghetto genocide to just happen in this country. The political repercussions would be insane and dramatic.

While I think Kanye was speaking passionately - there is truth in his emotion. I am white. I'll never know what it means to be black and poor in the South. But when those who have had that experience speak, I am very inclined to listen with my mouth closed and my ears open rather than the other way around.
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Old 09-03-2005, 09:02 PM   #97
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And Clinton cut the Levee money too....

He must be a racist as well....
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Old 09-03-2005, 09:03 PM   #98
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Originally posted by HelloAngel
I'll never know what it means to be black and poor in the South. But when those who have had that experience speak, I am very inclined to listen with my mouth closed and my ears open rather than the other way around.
Well, to be fair, Kanye West was born and raised in Chicago to a mother who is a university professor.

But I can see where he's coming from.

And I agree with every word he said.
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Old 09-03-2005, 09:04 PM   #99
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Oh, there are and were white people trapped in NO too. Their sufferning must have been so that the racist Bush could complete his evil master plan...send in the National Guard to shoot them all.

SAID COMPLETELY WITH SARCASM.
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Old 09-03-2005, 10:15 PM   #100
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if anybody didnt get to see it

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2678975
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Old 09-03-2005, 10:17 PM   #101
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"Lock and load!" "Sixteen in the clip!"

September 3, 2005

NEW ORLEANS — Forty-four troops pressed together in their truck, swaying as one at every bump and turn like reeds in a river.

As they plunged into the dark water engulfing the business district of New Orleans, their wake pushed the body of a woman onto the steps of the Superdome. The floodwater had ripped her pants down to her knees. She was facedown in the muck, a red ribbon still tied neatly around her graying hair.

The troops, members of an elite Special Response Team from the Louisiana Army National Guard, were the first convoy out of what was rapidly becoming a massive military staging ground.

Their mission, simply, is to turn New Orleans into a police state — to "regain the city," 1st Sgt. John Jewell said.

The truck lurched through the streets, past buildings burning unabated and MPs in gun turrets. When they stopped to gear up for their arrival at the New Orleans Convention Center, where more than 15,000 people had been living in squalor since Katrina, these words echoed — for the first time, one would imagine — through the intersection of Poydras Avenue and Carondelet Street: "Lock and load!"

"Sixteen in the clip!" one Guardsman shouted, a common refrain used to indicate that rifles are fully loaded.

But when they arrived, they did not find marauding mobs. They did not come under fire. They found people who had lost everything in the storm and, since then, their dignity.

The troops were part of the Superdome team that came to town before the hurricane. For days, they had been cut off from news reports, sleeping and working among the refugees and the vicious rumor mill at the Superdome.

Their Superdome duties left them with a terrible image of the city. They knew that out on the streets, a police officer had been shot in the head, that looting was widespread, that snipers were taking shots even at boaters trying to rescue victims from rooftops and attics.

Now assigned to patrol the streets, they headed for the New Orleans Convention Center, in the city's central business district. Many had wads of tobacco in their bottom lip and emitted long, dense streams of spittle into the streets below.

Their mission was to establish a command post at the center, which officials have increasingly turned their attention to, particularly as the evacuation of the Superdome nears its end. They would then build a staging area to bring in food and water. Finally, they would send in teams to seize control of a massive and lawless facility.

The troops braced for the worst.

"Is this the calm before the storm?" one asked as they rolled through the streets.

"There are a lot of gangs out here in the water," said Sgt. 1st Class Maris Pichon, a 26-year veteran of the National Guard who served in Afghanistan last year. "This is not going to be a cakewalk."

Two trucks pulled beside them, one carrying water and one a massive pile of ready-to-eat military meals in boxes.

"Tell me they're not letting the food go in before the troops," one Guardsman said.

"That's called bait," another said.

They pulled into a parking lot next to the convention center in full battle mode. They spilled over the sides of the truck, formed a tight circle and began walking outward, stepping over the detritus of the refugees. Dirty underwear. A CD that included the song "Thank God I'm a Country Boy."

A troop carrier rolled over an empty water bottle, popping it like a balloon. The troops yanked their weapons to a firing position before realizing what it was.

"No civilians in this parking lot!" a sergeant shouted. "Hold your perimeter!"
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Old 09-03-2005, 10:26 PM   #102
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Kanye's kind of an idiot, and it probably wasn't the best timing, but it's still a good point. I don't know if I'd call it racism (although there is that) as much as class discrimination, but I get the feeling the government sees the poor (who are mostly black) as being somehow less important, almost subhuman. Dehydrate a person for 4 days and give them a gun and they'll turn into just the animal you'd like to paint them as.
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Old 09-03-2005, 11:21 PM   #103
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Just watched it - whether you agree or disagree about what he said (and I agree about 50%) I thought it was brilliant. Celebrities reading from a teleprompted script be damned, as if they give a fuck - it was refreshing at least to see some real thoughts and emotions. Good on him.
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:30 AM   #104
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Originally posted by Jamila
Please do not judge too much.

You do not know how truly poor all these "po' folks" in N.O. were.

You also do not know me.

When's the last time you were downsized from a job and had to beg food from a pantry?

Until we walk a mile in someone else's shoes, we definitely have no reason to criticize.
Jamila, don't you see that it is precisely because you were judging the people who remained in New Orleans that people have made judgements about you? You're still judging people now -- questioning how poor people in New Orleans really are, questioning whether other FYMers have ever lived in poverty. You can't have it both ways -- either you think making judgements without having all the facts is wrong and you avoid doing it, or you continue doing it and accept that others will also make judgements with which you may disagree.

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I am in much better a situation to talk about the plight of the poor than people who have never known poverty a day in their lives.

I live in Texas and our poverty down here is also well documented. So please do not tell me about the South - I live here.
It's beyond doubt that there are other people posting here who have lived in poverty. Why do you assume they are less qualified than you to comment on the situation?

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I also know a lot of folks from N.O. or with friends from N.O. and their experiences with the "poor and downtrodden" people there are much different than the saintly picture of these folks which is being portrayed in the media.
I've debated all morning about whether to say this, but I'm going to go ahead and accept I'll probably get flamed for it.

Jamila, you often post messages about Africa, about the desperate poverty in which millions of Africans live, about the huge problem of HIV/AIDS in Africa, about how easily those problems could be solved. Now just imagine for one moment that somebody responded to one of your messages about Africa by pointing out that there are events occuring every day in Africa which are "much different than the saintly picture of these folks which is being portrayed in the media." Tell me honestly how you think you would respond to that, and then tell me why other people shouldn't respond on the same way to your comments about the people of New Orleans.

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Now, please excuse me - I have to go make your sandwiches today at Subway while y'all sit around and bash my American right to voice my opinions.
You're welcome to voice your opinions, as is everyone else. However in this case your opinions have offended a number of people and so they are exercising their right to express an opinion and telling you so.
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Old 09-04-2005, 05:49 AM   #105
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


I've debated all morning about whether to say this, but I'm going to go ahead and accept I'll probably get flamed for it.

Jamila, you often post messages about Africa, about the desperate poverty in which millions of Africans live, about the huge problem of HIV/AIDS in Africa, about how easily those problems could be solved. Now just imagine for one moment that somebody responded to one of your messages about Africa by pointing out that there are events occuring every day in Africa which are "much different than the saintly picture of these folks which is being portrayed in the media." Tell me honestly how you think you would respond to that, and then tell me why other people shouldn't respond on the same way to your comments about the people of New Orleans.
I don´t like this comparison.

No one is saying the problem of poverty can be solved that easily. There is absolutely no sense in an Africa vs. New Orleans who-is-off-worse argument.

Indeed, Fizz, you will probably agree with me when I say it is hitting the same people.

The Afro-Americans in New Orleans who were too poor to get out of the hurricane area are, in most cases, direct descendents from the slaves that were brought from Africa. And they still remain poor in one of the richest and most powerful nations on earth. This is the BIG SHAME for America. It hit the same people. The same families, if they were only able to trace back their family like we are.

They are the victims - everytime.
They got double trouble - everytime.
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