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Old 09-13-2005, 12:15 PM   #256
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


It is interesting that this assessement is automatically viewed as fact, rather than good headline material. FEMA took longer to respond in prior hurricane events, but with some coaching from television viewers, we are sold outrage as the proper measuring stick of response time. And has anyone stopped to consider that FEMA was not designed as a first responder entity?


there's a point where cynicism about the media becomes naivete.

let's not forget that it was Bush 1's slow response time to Andrew -- that was likewise widely criticized -- was probably what cost him Florida in the 1992 election. also, there has been no previous hurricane disaster on the scale of Katrina where a metropolis was flooded and with a humanitarian crisis of 3rd World proportions at the Superdome and the Convention Center, so to compare it to Hugo or Andrew is baseless because the human needs -- food, water, sanitation -- were

and, as for FEMA being a first responder, they disagree with you:

"On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). FEMA's continuing mission within the new department is to lead the effort to prepare the nation for all hazards and effectively manage federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates proactive mitigation activities, trains first responders, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration."

http://www.fema.gov/about/
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:17 PM   #257
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Probably tastes the same as the stuff the left drinks....


now, now, we all know that the left doesn't drink Kool Aid.

they put it in their pipes and smoke it ...

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Old 09-13-2005, 12:27 PM   #258
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Originally posted by diamond
Mrs S-

Some people are being manipulated by polictiains and entertainers such as Kayne, as you are.

db9
I don't feel like I'm being manipulated by anyone. I don't think Brown would have resigned if it hadn't been for the slow response to the disaster. The fact of the matter is that the Bush Administration has gutted FEMA, cutting its funds in half, and cut funding for the levees in New Orleans. Then they botched after the storm. Yes, so did the locals, who are all Democrats. New Orleans is a heavily Democratic city. It's being suggested that their exodus is going to swing Louisiana politics more towards the Republicans.
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:28 PM   #259
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Originally posted by Irvine511
there's a point where cynicism about the media becomes naivete.

let's not forget that it was Bush 1's slow response time to Andrew -- that was likewise widely criticized -- was probably what cost him Florida in the 1992 election. also, there has been no previous hurricane disaster on the scale of Katrina where a metropolis was flooded and with a humanitarian crisis of 3rd World proportions at the Superdome and the Convention Center, so to compare it to Hugo or Andrew is baseless because the human needs -- food, water, sanitation -- were

and, as for FEMA being a first responder, they disagree with you:

"On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). FEMA's continuing mission within the new department is to lead the effort to prepare the nation for all hazards and effectively manage federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates proactive mitigation activities, trains first responders, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration."

http://www.fema.gov/about/
Funny, cynicism of the media was considered an absolute necessity when he subject was the Iraq war. Why does questioning the editorial response to Katrina now become naivete?

Anyway

The quote from FEMA underscores my point. FEMA manages, trains, prepares first responders. They are not first responders as an entity. Look at the organizational chart for FEMA and show me how many individuals fall under the first responder catagory.
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:29 PM   #260
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Originally posted by verte76
I don't feel like I'm being manipulated by anyone.
The key to manipulation is to avoid letting the individual know they are being manipulated
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:32 PM   #261
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Rice Defends Bush's Race Record and Calls for Rebuilding Fairly

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Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, defending President Bush's record on racial issues, said yesterday that the hurricane disaster that disproportionately struck poor blacks in New Orleans "gives us an opportunity" to rectify historic injustices that she experienced as an African-American growing up in the South.

"When it's rebuilt, it should be rebuilt in a different way than it was at the time that this happened," Ms. Rice said in an interview at The New York Times, adding that "maybe now on the heels of New Orleans" there could be an effort to "deal with the problem of persistent poverty." [Click here to read a transcript.]

Ms. Rice spoke about a wide range of foreign policy issues, but seemed to speak most vehemently when she was asked what she told foreign leaders wondering about racial discrimination and poverty in the United States at a time when the Bush administration was promoting democracy around the world.

"You go to any other meeting around the world and show me the kind of diversity that you see in America's cabinet, in America's Foreign Service, in America's business community, in America's journalistic community," Ms. Rice said. "Show me that kind of diversity anyplace else in the world, and I'm prepared to be lectured about race."

When talking to foreigners about the hurricane victims, Ms. Rice said, she tells them: "Yes, we have a problem when race and poverty come together. We really do. It's a vestige of our history. It's a vestige of the Old South in this case. But don't misread that there has been no progress on issues of race in America."

Ms. Rice, who was born and spent her childhood in Birmingham, Ala., and who flew to Mobile two weekends ago to visit hurricane victims, rarely ventures into domestic political matters but has spoken many times over the last 10 days of those affected as victims of generations of poverty and racial discrimination.

"This is a part of the country I'm from," Ms. Rice said. "It is a place where there are pockets - by no means all of the Old South, but pockets - where race and poverty come together in a very ugly way."

But Ms. Rice rejected as "poisonous" any suggestion that President Bush himself would discriminate racially against any victims of the hurricane and said that his record on education, including aid to historically black colleges and the setting of standards for schoolchildren, demonstrated that he believed passionately in racial equality.

"I find it very strange to think that people would think that the president of the United States would sit deciding who ought to be helped on the basis of color, most especially this president," she said. "What evidence is there that this is the case? Why would you say such a thing?"
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:41 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Funny, cynicism of the media was considered an absolute necessity when he subject was the Iraq war. Why does questioning the editorial response to Katrina now become naivete?

Anyway

The quote from FEMA underscores my point. FEMA manages, trains, prepares first responders. They are not first responders as an entity. Look at the organizational chart for FEMA and show me how many individuals fall under the first responder catagory.


skepticism about the media is one thing, especially in a time of war when the reporters were "embedded" with troops (in order that they bond with the troops and thereby give more sympathetic portrayals of the mission). another difference is the tight restriction on information regulated by the Pentagon; this is vastly different from Katrina, where the media was on the ground far faster than the feds and when the media was reporting the disaster at the Convention Center that, apparently, went unnoticed by Brown and Chertoff

as for FEMA and first responders, it's bluntly obvious that FEMA is required to do far more than simply come in after a response and coordinate a relief effort. first responders fall under their direction. and regardless of that, do you think that FEMA has been anywhere near competent, especially in the first week after the hurricane hit land? thus, i really don't understand your point. who, then, is responsible for getting first resopnders into a disaster area? further, instead of facilitating first responders, as their mission statement says, the ineptitude of the agency -- which, again, falls onto Bush's lap -- actually created obstacles for the first responders.

example: Five West Virginia Air National Guard C-130 transport aircraft sent to pick up displaced victims from Hurricane Katrina returned home empty early Wednesday, following a series of frustrating bureaucratic snafus. "We met with obstacles everywhere we turned," said Lara Ramsburg, communications director for Gov. Joe Manchin. "It's been a frustrating experience." "To bring five planes back empty is a crying shame," Manchin told The Associated Press... "Until we hear something from FEMA — until they can put a plan together where we're sure the planes will be used — the planes will stay here," Ramsburg said. http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2005090727

finally, anyone who would hire as Director of FEMA a Michael Brown has made a ghastly, unconscionable mistake
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Old 09-13-2005, 01:05 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
yes when an entertainer says that their President doesn't care about them because of the color of their skin and some believe it automatically, and when you in turn amplify that message when in fact you know GW isn't a racist then yes you as well as the masses have been manipulated.

Nope I have not been manipulated. Yes I said that as far as I know he is not a racist, but I do believe that African Americans are justified in their opinions about him and in their frustration about how he has handled their plight in the hurricane and in many other avenues. I'm amplifying THEIR message.

And I felt and believed these things long before Kanye West even existed as a singer.

I have been banging my head against a wall here trying to get you to see that this is about much larger issues, I give up
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:28 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Do you not read the posts or the title of the thread?
Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "majority of posts"?
The scapegoat was GW provided by Kayne.
Can you not keep on topic?

and I would rather you sweat regarding me posting a link for you because I don't think you're really after the truth of this tragedy based on the tone of your responses and trolling.
Diamond,

Attacking another poster and accusing them of trolling in this manner is unacceptable. BVS simply asked you to provide evidence to back up one of your statements, there's no need to respond by accusing him of trolling and questioning his motives in posting in FYM. Please take some time to make sure your posts are respectful and deal with the subject at hand rather than insulting other posters. Please also remember that just because someone rejects your particular view of the situation does not mean they have been "manipulated" any more than you have been manipulated into forming your own opinions.

*Fizz.
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Old 09-13-2005, 02:36 PM   #265
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Originally posted by diamond


and I would rather you sweat regarding me posting a link for you because I don't think you're really after the truth of this tragedy based on the tone of your responses and trolling.

db9
Tone and trolling, that's ironic coming from you.

I'm after the truth, that's why I read articles from all news sources. And in everything I've read I haven't seen one item about this "truth" you speak of. And, well since you brought it up, you hold the burden of proof, that's how it works in the real world.

So until then you might want to check out some of what Bush is saying himself
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"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility,"
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Old 09-13-2005, 05:19 PM   #266
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

And has anyone stopped to consider that FEMA was not designed as a first responder entity?
Absolutely...100% True....

FEMA is designed to support the State and their role is defined in the states emergency response plan which I posted links to.

Has anyone asked why the Governor of New Orleans STOPPED the Red Cross and Salvation Army from doing their part?

Nah....It's Bush's fault.
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Old 09-13-2005, 05:53 PM   #267
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Absolutely...100% True....

FEMA is designed to support the State and their role is defined in the states emergency response plan which I posted links to.

Has anyone asked why the Governor of New Orleans STOPPED the Red Cross and Salvation Army from doing their part?

Nah....It's Bush's fault.


Dread: read FEMA's mission statement again.

also, as for Blanco, on September 7th, Rep. John Conyers wrote to the Congressional Research Service and asked them to review the record to see whether she took the necessary steps in a timely fashion to secure federal assistance in the face of Katrina.

the report came back yesterday. and she did. read it yourself

http://www2.dccc.org/docs/conyersgaokatrina.pdf

the White House has been hitting her for weeks now claiming that in various ways she dropped the ball. and, now, that seems quite to be false.
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Old 09-13-2005, 06:13 PM   #268
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Great. Lawyers involved in the "recovery" efforts.
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:21 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I don't feel like I'm being manipulated by anyone.

The key to manipulation is to avoid letting the individual know they are being manipulated
thats not your style nbcrusader

the key to dis critical people is to accuse them of being manipulated. stoopid concept, by the way.
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Old 09-13-2005, 11:23 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




Dread: read FEMA's mission statement again.

Irvine...

The mission statement is not the law...

Shall I again post the links to LA's laws RE Evacuations?
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