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Old 09-13-2005, 06:58 AM   #226
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For the people who insist that it has nothing to do with racism that NO had to wait for such a long time:

Then what other reason can you give me?

WHY did those poor people, black or white, have to wait for so long?

Because they were POOR?

Making someone wait for help because he is in a certain CLASS (poor) is just as bad like making someone wait for help because he´s a certainh COLOUR.

I also agree there are poor white people out there, but then
WHY did I ALWAYS see African Americans on the TV, in the Convention Center, in the Superdome?

Get real, will ya. This is not a fucking white suburb where you can pat each other´s backs on how equal and democratic your society is. It isn´t.

And now give me another reason why the poor people were left alone for so long, if you can find any.
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Old 09-13-2005, 07:36 AM   #227
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/12/kat...oll/index.html

"(CNN) -- White and black Americans view Hurricane Katrina's aftermath in starkly different ways, with more blacks viewing race as a factor in problems with the federal response, according to a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll released Monday.

The poll found that six in 10 blacks interviewed said the federal government was slow in rescuing those stranded in New Orleans after Katrina because many of the people in the Louisiana city were black. But only about one in eight white respondents shared that view."
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Old 09-13-2005, 07:53 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
For the people who insist that it has nothing to do with racism that NO had to wait for such a long time:

Then what other reason can you give me?

.
Brother,
There was no good plan in place. Louisiana was unprepared for this.
There are now some polictians now that are trying to exploit this tagedy for their benefit by trying to manipulate their voting blocs with the media's help.

GW called Gov Blanco twice to offering to send US guards and early on she refused him twice.

The levees broke on day #2.


The Mayor and Govenor did not want to force the ppl to leave until after the levees were broke leaving their residents stranded. They had hundreds of school buses that could of saved residents before the levees broke, but the local Govt officaials NOT GW chose to do nothing . The school buses were sumerged after the levees broke. The regular transit systems quit even before the levees broke and the local officails left the resdents inadvertently in harm's way.

This is the truth, and how it happened. It had nothing to do w race. It had to do with no game plan, the only plan to lash out at others trying asuage their own guilt, perhaps, thereby manipulating the masses -you being one my friend based on what you see in the media (and now your perception).These view points favors the local politicians' veiw point.

This also influenced Kayne's comments.
The truth of what evenually happen and will slowly rise.
Most Americans are beginning to realize it already.

And incidently Emergency Federal responses came quicker to Katrina than Hugo and George hurricanes, other recent hurricanes in the region.

db9
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Old 09-13-2005, 08:12 AM   #229
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

GW called Gov Blanco twice to offering to send US guards and early on she refused him twice.
Any evidence of this?

And yes we all know the local government dropped the ball, but why is it you can't see absolutely unacceptable lack of response on the federal level as well.

You keep talking about throwing blame but that's exactly what you are doing.

The truth is both the local and federal government allowed unacceptable indifference towards the poor victims of Katrina.
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Old 09-13-2005, 08:30 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Any evidence of this?

And yes we all know the local government dropped the ball, but why is it you can't see absolutely unacceptable lack of response on the federal level as well.

You keep talking about throwing blame but that's exactly what you are doing.
no im not
and you will see when the evidence comes out.


and im not throwing blame only pointing out the wrong ppl are being used as scapegoats and shouldn't be slandered, nor should the voting masses be manipulated as some have been thus far.

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Old 09-13-2005, 08:36 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


no im not
and you will see when the evidence comes out.
Hopeful thinking or do you know something that no one else including Bush knows?

Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

and im not throwing blame only pointing out the wrong ppl are being used as scapegoats and shouldn't be slandered, nor should the voting masses be manipulated as some have been thus far.

db9
Take a look at your post, you use scapegoats in every single posts. You are just as manipulated. Just take a look at your posts, remove the rose colored glasses and take a look.
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Old 09-13-2005, 08:51 AM   #232
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the majority of my posts were a call for us to help one another with or w/o glasses on, hue or shade of those glasses not being relevant.

one would need to pull their head out of a certain orifice to recognize the message of my posts.

and when the truth comes out about GW contacting Gov Blanco early on, I would hope that you would post about it, thanks.

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Old 09-13-2005, 09:01 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


one would need to pull their head out of a certain orifice to recognize the message of my posts.
maybe another needs to pull their head out of a certain orifice that belongs to a guy who lives in a big white house and has a dog named Barney
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:37 AM   #234
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
the majority of my posts were a call for us to help one another
With mention of scapegoats such as local gov, media, etc.
Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

and when the truth comes out about GW contacting Gov Blanco early on, I would hope that you would post about it, thanks.

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I've asked for a link? Interestingly enough one has been provided.
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Old 09-13-2005, 10:19 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

With mention of scapegoats such as local gov, media, etc.


I've asked for a link? Interestingly enough one has been provided.
Do you not read the posts or the title of the thread?
Do you understand the meaning of the phrase "majority of posts"?
The scapegoat was GW provided by Kayne.
Can you not keep on topic?

and I would rather you sweat regarding me posting a link for you because I don't think you're really after the truth of this tragedy based on the tone of your responses and trolling.

The truth will come out in time and it will be up to you BVS to decide what to do w/it.

If it's anything different from what I've alluded to, rest assured I will post it.


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Old 09-13-2005, 10:23 AM   #236
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...okay, everyone, I'm thinking deep breaths are in order...

Angela
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Old 09-13-2005, 11:04 AM   #237
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The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed
Sunday, September 11, 2005

It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.


Jack Kelly is national security writer for the Post-Gazette and The Blade of Toledo, Ohio (jkelly@post-gazette.com, 412-263-1476).

"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom.

But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:

More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:

"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.

"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.

"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above."

"You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome.

The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
courtesty of nbcrusader post in another thread.
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Old 09-13-2005, 11:14 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond

and I would rather you sweat regarding me posting a link for you because I don't think you're really after the truth of this tragedy based on the tone of your responses and trolling.
that is completely uncalled for diamond, he is not trolling

your condescending comments directed at him are uncalled for as well

if you are compelled to defend George Bush, at least do it in a respectful manner
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Old 09-13-2005, 11:18 AM   #239
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen


that is completely uncalled for diamond, he is not trolling

your condescending comments directed at him are uncalled for as well

if you are compelled to defend George Bush, at least do it in a respectful manner
ive been very respectful madam.

maybe another needs to pull their head out of a certain orifice that belongs to a guy who lives in a big white house and has a dog named Barney

and your posts are agenda oriented as well it appears.
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Old 09-13-2005, 11:22 AM   #240
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This blows Diamonds article out of the toxic soup.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120009

a September 10 column, Toledo Blade and Pittsburgh Post-Gazette columnist Jack Kelly put forth numerous falsehoods and dubious statements in defense of the Bush administration's response to Hurricane Katrina. Kelly's column was quickly embraced by the conservative media: On September 12, it was posted on the Drudge Report and read aloud by Rush Limbaugh on his nationally syndicated radio program.

Claim #1: Federal government couldn't have had "preposition[ed] assets" near New Orleans ready to immediately assist relief effort

Kelly sought to defend the federal government's much-criticized response to the hurricane by citing an anonymous "former Air Force logistics officer" who claimed on the weblog Molten Thought that "[y]ou cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region." Kelly then adopted the point, declaring that "Navy ships sailing from Norfolk [Naval Shipyard in Virginia] can't be on the scene immediately."

In fact, a Navy ship -- the USS Bataan -- was "preposition[ed]" off the Louisiana coast ready to aid Katrina victims but was deprived of needed guidance by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), as the Chicago Tribune reported on September 4.

Moreover, the Bush administration did not send a hospital ship to New Orleans from Baltimore until four days after the levees were breached. Kelly wrote that the Army Corps of Engineers had by September 10 "begun pumping water out of New Orleans." But James Lee Witt, FEMA director in the Clinton administration, said that both efforts should have happened much sooner: "[I]n the 1990s, in planning for a New Orleans nightmare scenario, the federal government figured it would pre-deploy nearby ships with pumps to remove water from the below-sea-level city and have hospital ships nearby."

Claim #2: Federal government "pretty much met standard time lines" in initial response to Katrina; responded with "unprecedented" speed in following days

Kelly cited a whitewash of the federal government's delayed response by Florida Army National Guardsman Jason van Steenwyk, who claimed that the "federal government pretty much met its standard time lines" in responding to the crisis.

According to the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) December 2004 National Response Plan (NRP), when responding to a catastrophic incident, the federal government should immediately begin emergency operations, even in the absence of a clear assessment of the situation. Because a "detailed and credible common operating picture may not be achievable for 24 to 48 hours (or longer) after the incident," the NRP's "Catastrophic Annex" states that "response activities must begin without the benefit of a detailed or complete situation and critical needs assessment."

In fact, it wasn't until August 31, two days after the hurricane struck, that DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff declared Katrina an "Incident of National Significance," "triggering for the first time a coordinated federal response to states and localities overwhelmed by disaster," according to the Associated Press.

Kelly also cited Steenwyk's claim that the federal response to Katrina "during the 72-96 hour" period was "unprecedented" and "faster" than all other recent storms, including Hurricane Andrew. But, as CJR Daily has noted, Miami Herald columnist Leonard Pitts Jr., whose house was damaged by Andrew, had a different recollection in a September 9 Herald op-ed:

The day after I crawled from the wreckage of my home in 1992, the Federal Emergency Management Agency was there with water. Shortly thereafter came low-interest loans and other forms of help.

By contrast, a woman who saw me conducting interviews in Bogalusa, La., seven days after Katrina struck marched up and demanded to know if I was, finally, the man from FEMA because her house was split in two and she and her husband and children and grandchildren were sleeping on the porch.

Claim #3: "The levee broke Tuesday morning"

Kelly falsely claimed that flooding first began in New Orleans on August 30, writing that "[t]he levee broke Tuesday morning." While it is unclear exactly which levee Kelly was referring to, "major levee breaks" first occurred on "the morning of Monday, Aug. 29," as The Wall Street Journal noted (subscription required) on September 12. The New Orleans office of the National Weather Service issued a flash flood warning at 8:14 a.m. Monday, saying 'a levee breach occurred along the industrial canal at Tennessee Street,'" according to the Journal.

As Media Matters for America has documented, a weblog of the New Orleans Times-Picayune -- dated August 29, 2 p.m. CT -- noted that "City Hall confirmed a breach of the levee along the 17th Street Canal at Bellaire Drive, allowing water to spill into Lakeview." This initial report on the Times-Picayune weblog was followed throughout the afternoon and evening of August 29 by reports of other levee breaks and massive flooding.

Claim #4: There were "roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans" when Katrina hit

In claiming that there were "roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses" that New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin could have used to evacuate his city before Hurricane Katrina hit, Kelly repeated a falsehood that apparently originated in a September 6 column by Washington Times editor-in-chief Wesley Pruden. In fact, there were far fewer buses in New Orleans at the time of the hurricane than Kelly claimed.

According to a September 5, 2003, article in the Times-Picayune, "The [Orleans Parish school] district owns 324 buses but 70 are broken down." In addition, a Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development profile of the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority (RTA), last updated May 5, notes that RTA owned 364 public buses, bringing the total of the city's public transit and school buses to fewer than 700 (assuming the fleet of school buses has not been dramatically increased since 2003) -- far fewer than the 2,000 Kelly claimed.

A recent report by The New York Times suggests that the number of school buses in New Orleans has not dramatically increased. The Times reported on September 4 that Louisiana emergency planners believed it would take as many as 2,000 buses to evacuate the elderly and disabled residents of New Orleans in the event of a catastrophic hurricane like Katrina but that this was "far more than New Orleans possessed."

Claim #5: National Guardsmen took time to arrive because governors of afflicted states didn't request them fast enough

Kelly erroneously suggested that another reason the federal relief effort was delayed was because "[National] Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states."

In fact, as Media Matters has noted, according to Department of Defense officials, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour had requested additional Guard personnel before the storm hit. And, as the Associated Press reported on September 3, Blanco accepted an offer for additional troops from New Mexico the day before the hurricane hit, but that help was delayed by paperwork needed from Washington.

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