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Old 09-06-2005, 07:14 AM   #166
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Originally posted by U2Bama


Thanks.

But I guess my point is that my "evidence" is simply dismissed as "anecdotal pieces" of such. Perhaps you don't consider it relevant or worthy of consideration in the bigger picture, or perhaps you simply consider it the exception to the rule. I cannot convince you other wise. But it does disturb me when people choose to ignore such "evidence" because they don't want to acknowledge such accounts of progress (there's that word again) in the status quo (and I'm not talking about the Katrina crisis/aftermath). Personally, I value the diversity of my community and I think it's a cussess story.

~U2Alabama


and this might be where we simply differ.

i find that these anecdotal pieces of evidence often function as excuses rather than examples of success. when you're dealing with politics, by its very nature, it forces you into making generalizations and looking at things in aggregate. politics forces you to sacrafice what makes you an individual and asks you to see how you align yourself with a particular social class, or race, or group, or whatever is being discussed at the time. one example, which comes easily for me, is that i can name you a million-and-one ways in which i feel distanced from what might be labled as "gay culture." however, this doesn't matter in the eyes of the body politic, because by virtue of being gay -- no matter how ill-fitting the lable -- there are certain rights that i am denied and cetain social stigmas that i will always have to put up with.

the same thing with, i think, being part of any minority culture. Kanye West is very talented, very wealthy, very arrogant, and the son of a college professor. in many ways, he's more "white" than i am -- however, because his skin is black, there are certain political and social realities that he is always going to have to deal with and he will always feel a closer connection to the poor black folk who died in New Orleans than you or i ever will. just like i will feel the executions of gay teenagers in Iran (have been several over the month of August) probably more profoundly than a straight person will. why? because it's simply easier for me to put myself in their shoes, through virtue of the connection that exists between people who are treated as somewhat different, in the same way, by politics and society.

i do think these pieces of anecdotal information might help to underscore a point, or provide evidence that complicates a situation. life is exceedingly complex, and we need personal stories to complicate the grand narratives that politics produces. however, a single story does not a counter-narrative make. that's really my point.

i also think it ties into something deeper that i find frustrating in American society. while our individualism is in many ways our greatest strength, and having lived abroad and visited over 30 different countries including lengthy homestays with "natives" (as it were ... in France, the UK, Germany, and Slovenia), i do think that we are a much more self-empowered group of people. it's what makes me want to live here rather than abroad, because i feel more in charge of the direction of my life. however, the downside of this is that i think the individualism gives us an out when it comes to collective responsibility, and this is where i think European nations (if i might be so sweeping) do a great job of putting the needs of the community -- especially on a micro level, as in environmentally responsible purchases, for example -- ahead of their own individualist whims. and the justification-by-anecdote plays into this.

so that's a long-winded explanation, but i felt as if i should give you some background so you know where my comments (and the inappropriate sarcasm) came from.
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Old 09-06-2005, 08:08 AM   #167
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Anecdotal evidence has fueled the criticism of the relief efforts. Why would anecdotal evidence of success be dismissed?
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Old 09-06-2005, 08:31 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Anecdotal evidence has fueled the criticism of the relief efforts. Why would anecdotal evidence of success be dismissed?


success stories have been reported; most people are in agreement that it's been going well since Friday, and Houston and the Astrodome are getting particularly good reviews, as have local churches.

i'm not sure what your point is.

if you want to compare emergency relief efforts to the continuing problems that perpetuate African-American poverty in the south over generations and their relationship to what has been generally very conservative governments since the 1960s, then you're comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 09-06-2005, 11:39 AM   #169
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I think *alot* of people are really freaked out by the news. Now the devastation is even on the cover of People magazine, to hell with celebrities for this week.
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Old 09-06-2005, 03:41 PM   #170
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Now what is happening in Jeb Bush's Florida?

Quote:
Motel Pays $40,000 And Shuts Down To Settle Discrimination Case

POSTED: 2:35 pm EDT September 6, 2005

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- A Perry motel owner will pay victims $40,000 and give up the lodging business in a settlement over charges he gave black customers inferior rooms and kept them from using the pool, Attorney General Charlie Crist announced Tuesday.


"It's hard to imagine that in this day and age this kind of thing could still occur, but regrettably it does," Crist said. "People should be treated appropriately and there should never be discrimination. And if you operate in that fashion, you will not operate in Florida."


Patrick Sneed was a guest at the motel for a family reunion when Patel told his family he couldn't use the pool. His sons were in it when Patel dumped chemicals in to force them out.

"I had to look my sons in the eye and say 'I can accept this kind of behavior or I can take some steps to address it,"' said Sneed.

Sneed, though, didn't think much would come of matter when he wrote a letter to Crist's office, saying that sometimes it's easy to lose faith in the system after facing discrimination.


Crist said, "I'm pleased that maybe his faith has been restored. It's important to take these things seriously because they affect real people in a real way."

Calls were not answered at the Southern Inn, which has shut down. Patel's lawyer didn't immediately return calls for comment.

The suit was the first filed under a state civil rights act passed by the Legislature two years ago. The new law allows the Attorney General's Office to file civil charges for patterns of discrimination.

Perry is the same town that faced protests in 2001 because a black bar customer was told he could only be served in a back room.
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Old 09-06-2005, 03:44 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
Now what is happening in Jeb Bush's Florida?

As much as I hate to stick up for a Bush, he really doesn't have anything to do with this story. Crist is a Republican that works for Bush, and it sounds like they did the right thing.


Completely off-topic, but I almost got hit by a Crist campaign car when he was running for state senator or something like that many years ago. Whenever I see his name, I always think of that .
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Old 09-06-2005, 03:46 PM   #172
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deep, could you please check out this thread about posting long newspaper articles or editorials. Thanks.

And y'know, if your posts could be a little more than tangentially related to the thread, that'd be nice too.
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Old 09-06-2005, 04:01 PM   #173
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Originally posted by kellyahern


As much as I hate to stick up for a Bush, he really doesn't have anything to do with this story. Crist is a Republican that works for Bush, and it sounds like they did the right thing.


Completely off-topic, but I almost got hit by a Crist campaign car when he was running for state senator or something like that many years ago. Whenever I see his name, I always think of that .

fair enough


living in CA
it has been a long time since anything like this has happened here

i know attitudes about race are different in the south

and I have not spent any serious amout of time there.

Jeb has had his problems with African Americans

But Kanye remarks were directed at the President.

I guess I threw this in here because I did not want to start a new thread
and it is not a good fit, sorry
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:49 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep



living in CA
it has been a long time since anything like this has happened here
Oh, not TOO long ago (2000).

And remember the Florida case was a lawsuit against a minority defendant. This was noted in the local coverage.

~U2Alabama
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Old 09-06-2005, 07:59 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


so that's a long-winded explanation, but i felt as if i should give you some background so you know where my comments (and the inappropriate sarcasm) came from.
Understood, and not long-winded at all. The complexity kind of ties into that macro and micro concept that melon mentioned in another thread, and you mentioned the micro view here as well.

But I can somewhat relate to your outrage at the murder of homosexuals in Iran, as I've been equally outraged by the stories of people in some parts of Iran who have converted from Islam to Christianity and meet the same fate. And again, I recall a post by Melon, perhaps it was in the Goal Is Soul Forum, where he and another poster were commenting that it would be better if people could recognize what we have in common, rather than our differences. Oh, in an ideal world...some day.

~U2Alabama
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Old 09-07-2005, 07:57 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama


Understood, and not long-winded at all. The complexity kind of ties into that macro and micro concept that melon mentioned in another thread, and you mentioned the micro view here as well.

But I can somewhat relate to your outrage at the murder of homosexuals in Iran, as I've been equally outraged by the stories of people in some parts of Iran who have converted from Islam to Christianity and meet the same fate. And again, I recall a post by Melon, perhaps it was in the Goal Is Soul Forum, where he and another poster were commenting that it would be better if people could recognize what we have in common, rather than our differences. Oh, in an ideal world...some day.

~U2Alabama


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Old 09-07-2005, 08:53 AM   #177
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Kanye is performing in the NFL kickoff pregame tomorrow
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Old 09-07-2005, 09:14 AM   #178
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Old 09-07-2005, 09:43 AM   #179
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Diamonds From Sierra Leone?
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Old 09-07-2005, 10:29 AM   #180
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Take everything with a grain of salt THIS BIG?
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