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Old 09-04-2005, 08:44 PM   #136
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yes, but financeguy you don't understand the situation!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-04-2005, 08:50 PM   #137
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I just saw the re-play of the concert tonight.

I thought Aaron Neville's renditions "Louisiana 1927" (a great Randy Newman song) and "Amazing Grace" were much more moving than Kanye West's outburst. I'm no Tim McGraw fan but his first song was quite fitting as well.

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Old 09-04-2005, 08:54 PM   #138
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bam

out of nowhere

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Old 09-04-2005, 08:57 PM   #139
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Yes.

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Old 09-04-2005, 09:20 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine11
in the US, especially in the south, one is pretty much the same thing as the other.
Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal

see that's not necessarily true, and that's what i'm getting at. the south isn't divided into two parts: the rich white, and the poor black. there are tons of poor whites, your "white trash." poor whites aren't all that much better off than poor blacks, trust me.

I guess I'm just saying that there's some subtle racism and class discrimination. it's not one or the other, and it's not because any of these people dislike blacks or poor people, it's subconscious.
But, see, VertigoGal, then you take away the "shock value" of presenting it entirely as a black vs. white (not just black AND white) problem. And not only are there poor whites (whom are not all "white trash"), there are also middle, upper-middle, and upper class African-Americans, even here in the South of all God-forbidden places. I live in a nice neighborhood in a suburban county; we have nice homes with basement garages and large, well-groomed yards, and all the kids go to a great school system. And we have African-American homeowners in the neighborhood alongside "the rest of us." Here in Alabama, the "Heart of Dixie."

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Old 09-04-2005, 09:45 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zoomerang96
u2wedge, your signature is pathetic and you should give your head a shake.

i'm actually gonna go and buy three kanye cds...one for me, and two for you and your mom.
now YOU'RE top notch.
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Old 09-04-2005, 10:57 PM   #142
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thanks.

maybe i should buy one for you too?

what a wanker...
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Old 09-04-2005, 11:05 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by LastEdgeOnEarth
NOTHING LIKE LIVE TV!!!!!!!!! Does anyone else think he just blew his chance to open for U2 on the tour...i sure hope so!
lol... the way Kanye's career is going, he risks bumping himself up the bill, not off it.
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Old 09-05-2005, 07:50 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama




But, see, VertigoGal, then you take away the "shock value" of presenting it entirely as a black vs. white (not just black AND white) problem. And not only are there poor whites (whom are not all "white trash"), there are also middle, upper-middle, and upper class African-Americans, even here in the South of all God-forbidden places. I live in a nice neighborhood in a suburban county; we have nice homes with basement garages and large, well-groomed yards, and all the kids go to a great school system. And we have African-American homeowners in the neighborhood alongside "the rest of us." Here in Alabama, the "Heart of Dixie."

~U2Alabama


my goodness!

you live next door to a black person! and you're not afraid?

how progressive!

listen, we all know that poor people come in all colors, shapes and sizes, as do rich people. yes, there are wealthy black people and poor white people, but it's no secret that for all your anecdotal pieces of evidence (this sounds familiar to the whole "well my SUV let's me bring toys to the hospital!"), which are certainly true, in aggregate, when looking at percentages of the population, the lower classes in this country are disproportionately of people of color, in particular African-Americans.

my mother was a teacher, and she has taught in both the black inner city (Bedford-Stuyvasant) and in white rural Vermont (outside of Waterbury), and she has said that, by far, the black kids were better off than the poor white kids. their parents were, on the whole, better, more educated, had more opportunity, and there were more kids who were able to get out of inner-city Brooklyn than out of rural Vermont.

however, the sheer number of black kids in Brooklyn dwarfs the white kids in Vermont. we are talking about percentages of the population here.

in general, if you are black, you are far more likely to be poor, to be born into poverty, to be born to a single mother, to grow up on dangerous streets and with poor schools than if you are born white. a single black family in your neighborhood isn't going to change that fact, and what Kanye and others are essentially saying is that what the hurricane did was strip away all these notions of progress and upward mobility (some of which was true ... the 1990s was a good time for the black middle class) that are buttressed by easy anecdotes of black kids in white neighborhoods or that, gee, when we took our daughter to look at Dartmouth the tour guide was black, and we see a deeply poor, disenfranchised group of thousands living in the inner-city who are predominantly african-american.

we have a problem here. and we need to acknowledge it, not pat ourselves on the back for feeling progressive.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:35 AM   #145
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What I'm not understanding is the attacks on Kanye's credibility and classiness as a human being. If he was white would we be saying the same things? If he was someone we all related to more, would we be so quick to tear him down?

Kanye is wonderful role model in the hiphop community. Perhaps some of you don't know anything about him. Or the fact that he's a rapper makes him classless. I dunno. I wonder if it was Halle Berry, Morgan Freeman or even Tim McGraw if we would be cutting him down so low.

Sure, his response, while heartfelt, was not well-timed. Sure, he has a new album out. And while I don't like that he said Bush doesn't care about black people, I don't think we should tear him and his credibility down for having an emotional outburst.

Maybe some of you should hear "Jesus Walks" or any of his other stuff. If anything, he has more class and balls than alot of the other popular stars out there right now. He raps about his spirituality and the importance of education, and this is very inspirational in a genre that for all intents and purposes has devolved into a pimps and ho's manner for the past decade.

I guess I'm done talking on this. I'll go ahead and bend over as I wait for flames.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:43 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




my goodness!

you live next door to a black person! and you're not afraid?

how progressive!

This is a disappointing statement....

Is there a reason for the sarcastic response written in a polite manner.

Or would you prefer anyone with a different opinion or perspective even to just fade away.

I am really wondering WTF?
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:45 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally posted by HelloAngel
What I'm not understanding is the attacks on Kanye's credibility and classiness as a human being. If he was white would we be saying the same things? If he was someone we all related to more, would we be so quick to tear him down?
I would be saying this if he were white. If EMINEM stood up and said Bush did not care for the poor white people trapped in NO I would be equally outraged.

To stand there when people are trying to help and say what he said sickens me.

Sorry.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:46 AM   #148
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I'm with you, Hello Angel.

A lot of people are saying it wasn't the right time to say what he said. When is the right time? Maybe this IS the right time to start expressing frustration. Maybe people will start listening to the sheer anger and outrage so many are feeling right now. Maybe more people should start saying what they feel, appropriateness, timing or political correctness be damned.

(To be fair, I only agree with Kanye to a point - I think Bush doesn't care about the poor, not just African Americans.)

And if anyone was turned off enough by his statements to put their checkbook away and NOT donate to the Red Cross, then I have two strong words for them. Anyone with half a brain knows the Red Cross has nothing to do with Kanye West, and the human need always rises above political disagreement.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:50 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama




But, see, VertigoGal, then you take away the "shock value" of presenting it entirely as a black vs. white (not just black AND white) problem. And not only are there poor whites (whom are not all "white trash"), there are also middle, upper-middle, and upper class African-Americans, even here in the South of all God-forbidden places. I live in a nice neighborhood in a suburban county; we have nice homes with basement garages and large, well-groomed yards, and all the kids go to a great school system. And we have African-American homeowners in the neighborhood alongside "the rest of us." Here in Alabama, the "Heart of Dixie."

~U2Alabama
Exactly.

Irvine, I don't think anyone is disputing that blacks have a higher rate of poverty by percentage, and it's a problem. But in pure numbers there are more poor whites in this country than poor blacks, and that's why I don't like that you say in the south being poor and being black are virtually the same thing.
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Old 09-05-2005, 09:54 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by corianderstem
I'm with you, Hello Angel.

A lot of people are saying it wasn't the right time to say what he said. When is the right time? Maybe this IS the right time to start expressing frustration. Maybe people will start listening to the sheer anger and outrage so many are feeling right now. Maybe more people should start saying what they feel, appropriateness, timing or political correctness be damned.

(To be fair, I only agree with Kanye to a point - I think Bush doesn't care about the poor, not just African Americans.)

And if anyone was turned off enough by his statements to put their checkbook away and NOT donate to the Red Cross, then I have two strong words for them. Anyone with half a brain knows the Red Cross has nothing to do with Kanye West, and the human need always rises above political disagreement.

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