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Old 03-09-2006, 12:36 AM   #1
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Hmm, transgender thread or bisexual?

Ok, we've had the homosexual appreciation thread and now we have the heterosexual thread (sorry I didn't type that like I'm an idiot ). So, now we have to ask ourselves, "Selves, do we want a transgender appreciation thread, or do we want a bisexual one?"
I'm eagerly waiting.......
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Old 03-09-2006, 01:31 AM   #2
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I like the sound of transgender.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:49 AM   #3
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My un. auntie is transgender (pre-op)

Not that theres anything wrong with that.
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:58 AM   #4
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Ok, so this is the transgender thread.
Transgender issues are complicated - at least for me they are. While I theortically accept the fact that there are geniune transgender individuals, it's still something I'm not used to. I watch programs such as TransGeneration and I accept the people on the program. But, it's still so foreign to me. Damn heteronormativity! How does it feel not knowing for sure which restroom do you use? My heart goes out to anyone whose sex doesn't correspond to their gender.
I recommend reading Stone Butch Blues.
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Old 03-09-2006, 08:34 AM   #5
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TransGeneration, is that a tv program?
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Old 03-09-2006, 09:16 AM   #6
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I liked Transamerica. Does that count?
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:24 AM   #7
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when was there a homosexual appreciation thread?

Justin's thread was kind of the opposite of that.

my thread was informational, not in-praise-of, which was Iron Horse's thread, since heterosexuals obviously need the affirmation.
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Old 03-09-2006, 10:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
since heterosexuals obviously need the affirmation.
Yes. Like many other majorities, we were feeling a bit persecuted.
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Old 03-09-2006, 11:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
when was there a homosexual appreciation thread?


I was wondering the same thing. I thought I had missed something!
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:53 PM   #10
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I am neither.....but, I have no problem with folks who are.

Only murderers, rapist and people. I use this term lightly. Who abuse children. I have a real problem with them.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:24 PM   #11
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i think my problem is lumping transgendered people in with gay and bisexual people.

these are very different people with a very different set of concerns, and it's sort of the ad-hoc nature of many progressive social movements to lump themselves together (or to be lumped together) when there's little in common besides a shared history of oppression and persecution.

this doesn't mean i don't support the rights of TG people as much as anyone else; but it does mean that, as a gay person, i don't necessarily feel any closer affinity to them than i would another marginalized group, other than perhaps being more at ease with non-traditional understandings of sexuality and desire.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:53 PM   #12
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As far as it goes I'm interested in reading more about transgenderism, but frankly, I haven't yet come across any book-length material of sufficient literary or intellectual merit to really hold my attention. I read a couple of Leslie Feinberg's books including Stone Butch Blues, which I personally thought had wince-inducingly trite dialogue and a very sloppy plot. Read a couple books by Kate Bornstein, which were amusing and witty, but not particularly substantial or informative. Pat Califa and Judith Halberstam...eh, some new insights here and there, but mostly just your stereotypically turgid, hyperjargony, hamfisted-type-of-lit-crit kind of stuff. And some other person whose name I can't recall but isn't worth recalling anyway.

No reflection on the worth of the movement itself, of course--I suppose it's just too new and too small to have thrown up its own major writers yet. Or maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places. Uh, I don't recommend the lists on amazon.com, which all seem to start and end with Myra Breckinridge ! --not exactly a transgender author there...
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
when was there a homosexual appreciation thread?

Justin's thread was kind of the opposite of that.

my thread was informational, not in-praise-of, which was Iron Horse's thread, since heterosexuals obviously need the affirmation.
my mistake. I just remember reading interesting comments in the latter part of that thread. I didn't actually read the original comment.

I actually found Feinberg's novel to be deceptively deep. On the surface she seems to be trying to just put the reader into the shoes of an individual who doesn't fit in our heteronormative society. Beneath that though, her book is actually an argument about what the "queer family" should be. I just wrote a paper on this actually - that doesn't make me an expert though, I realize this - and I think she is arguing that the "queer family" should deconstruct our emphasis on individuality, challenge heteronormativity, and embrace diversity. The differences between members in the "queer family" can actually serve as the glue that binds. I am reminded of the lyrics in the song One: We're one, but we're not the same, we get carry each other
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Old 03-10-2006, 05:55 AM   #14
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oh wait, no..I'm wrong. the homosexual thread was closed because of some awful comments. again, my mistake...big mistake.
well, there should be a appreciation thread. I can only speak for myself, but I appreciate the diversity in society. I have learned so much this quarter in my LGBT class about myself, society, and my role in society. I thought I was progressive before I took the course because I supported gay marriage/rights.
Really, the danger of prejudice is that today it's appearance can be so subtle. I've learned to face a lot of the inner-prejudices I hadn't realized I still fostered. Having a pastor as your father, thus constantly hearing homophobic messages, has had a deep impact on me.
I think it's important for us all to constantly re-evaluate our thoughts about others. As I admitted earlier, I struggle with transgender issues. It angers me that I struggle - why can't I just geniunely accept everyone?
Hopefully my comments/confessions are not seen as offensive. I'm just being openly critical of myself.
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Old 03-10-2006, 08:58 AM   #15
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this was on Paula Zahn last night-I don't like her use of the word "bizarre" here but that's CNN hyperbole for you

ZAHN: In tonight's "Mysteries of the Mind," I'm about to introduce you to a family dealing with a truly bizarre problem. One of their children, born physically a girl, almost from the beginning was convinced she's actually a boy.

So, you can only imagine the kind of torment that could cause to a small child growing up. Well, the family finally reached a turning point when a psychologist diagnosed Tye Clark with gender identity disorder. And now the family finds itself on a very challenging journey, dealing with this very strange new reality -- reality, that is -- of a transgender child, someone who wants to be considered a member of the opposite sex.

That family's story is tonight's "Mysteries of the Mind."


ZAHN: Take me back to when you were 2 years old, and you say you became very aware that you were born the wrong gender. What exactly could you feel at that age?

TYE CLARK, TRANSGENDERED TEEN: Right from the time that I could really make my own decisions, like a dress and choose what I was going to be, and sort of the whole like what are you going to be when you grow up, I felt just male. And my body didn't match what I felt inside, because I would look down and I would have -- have a girl's body.

ZAHN: At what age were you old enough to really feel trapped by that?

T. CLARK: You know, maybe third grade, when kids were starting to get into boys or girls, or dating, and fashion, and Barbies and all that -- that kind of stuff.

ZAHN: And, yet, you tried to convince your parents for a very long period of time that you were a boy trapped in a girl's body.

T. CLARK: Yes, because I was so convinced in my mind that I was a guy. And I -- it felt unfair to me that my parents would keep telling me that I was a girl, because I knew, in my mind, that I was a guy.

ZAHN: I guess what I find so remarkable about your story is that you were so young when you realized you were different. And we have a picture of you playing. And -- and you're dressed as a groom at a wedding. No one could ever convince you to be the bride, could they?

T. CLARK: All the girls were in their little skirts and pink shirts and saying, oh, I'm the woman. I was always like Ken, and I'm going to marry you, and like the guy in that. And I just -- yes, I was so convinced, myself, that I was a guy, that I just wouldn't let anyone tell me I had to be girl.

Rory, when Tye started saying to you, "Mom, I'm not a girl; I'm a both; stop dressing me like a girl; you can put as many frilly dresses on me as you want, but that's not who I am," how did you deal with that?

RORY COHEN, MOTHER OF TYE CLARK: Well, I'm a very open-minded, liberal person.

And I thought that Tye -- so, I was very -- thinking I was being very open-minded, well, Tye, you're a girl. And girls can do anything. You know, maybe you just like boys -- what boys do. Maybe you just think that boys are cooler. You can be anything you want as a girl. This is -- it's a great time to be a woman in this country.

ZAHN: And you actually sent him to a girls school...

COHEN: We sent him to a girls...

ZAHN: ... to expose him to a broad range of what girls can be like...

COHEN: That's right.

ZAHN: ... and how they can live.

COHEN: We just didn't know that it was possible to have a male brain on a female body. So, as much as I heard Tye say he was male, I didn't understand. I don't think either one of us really understood at that point what that really meant, that it even was a possibility, that -- that he was transgendered.

ZAHN: And, Matthew, you're a doctor who has been exposed to a lot of differences in -- in people's lives. How terrified were you to know the truth?

MATTHEW CLARK, FATHER OF TYE CLARK: Well, it was -- it was definitely unsettling. You know, it's -- I think it is a different -- it is one thing to sort of be there as a physician while someone else goes through a crisis with their child, whatever that might be, and have some kind of distance or objectivity.

It -- it felt -- it felt different, you know, being a dad. And it's hard to be in doctor mode when -- when it is my kid. I also think this was more unchartered territory than what I was used to. ZAHN: Tye, if you could, kind of walk us through the journey that you have been on, from this time where you had to absolutely convince your parents that you were a boy trapped in a girl's body, where you went public with your diagnosis, shared it with classmates in a very large school. What has that been like for you?

T. CLARK: It has definitely been hard, because, yes, I think every kid wants to be accepted and wants to be, you know, in with the other group of kids.

And, for me, that's -- that has been hard, because of my situation. But what I did after I got diagnosed with this, I held this assembly with my eighth grade class. It was basically all the eighth grade kids in the school and I said this is what I am, and I want you to accept me because I'm no different from what I was last year, except that I'm a guy this year, but I'm the same person and I want you to accept me and just give me the respect of being a guy. You know, after that, things picked up a lot. And...

ZAHN: In what way?

T. CLARK: Well, I was happier for one thing because I wasn't hiding anymore. And people called me "he" and for the first time in my life it was just mostly a consistent he. I mean, there were slipups but, you know, people would call me "he."

ZAHN: Shane what has it been like for you to watch what used to be your sister transition into your brother?

SHANE CLARK, TYE'S SISTER: At first when he first came home with the diagnosis that he was transgender that was just the worst part for me because I couldn't believe, you know, my sister was going to be -- how could my sister be a boy? It didn't make any sense to me. Then I started to see how happy he was and just how much this fit who he was as a person and it just sort of -- it made sense to me.

ZAHN: How surprised have you all been by that level of acceptance? Weren't you worried about that, Tye?

T. CLARK: Oh, yeah. I -- one of the things that matters to me is being accepted, so I was terrified getting up there and telling people because, you know, on one hand, it could be good keeping quiet, but on the other hand it could be bad and I just had so vision of it being negative, but it turned out to be so positive, I was just stunned.

ZAHN: As Tye moves ahead, into his late teens, and into his 20s, what do you most worried about?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I worry about anything, it is just that he would be safe. And that he wouldn't be a victim of some violence of an ignorant person, just because he's transgendered and because he's chosen to be so public about it.

ZAHN: You do have some critical decisions you're going to have to make down the road about taking different kinds of hormones and perhaps even surgery at some point. Where are you on that right now?

T. CLARK: I'm not on hormones at the moment, but I would definitely think about taking them in the future, possibly after surgery. Maybe -- a few months ago I was interested in top and bottom surgery. But then I decided since there were more cons than pros, I decided not to get bottom and to get top surgery.

ZAHN: Tye what do you dream about? What do you hope your life will be like someday?

T. CLARK: Well, I've got to say, like most of the teens I know, you want to be look a rock star or someone famous. But I really -- I would like to find somebody I want to spend the rest of my life with and just settle down and I'm really -- I'm interested in, you know, like art and writing and I think I want to write my own book about this for kids and parents, especially, who, you know, need support on this. So, I think, you know, maybe write a book or just take things easy, you know, and just taking it one step at a time and I don't know. I want to get married at some point, but...

ZAHN: You want kids of your own.

T. CLARK: I want kids of my own.

ZAHN: Tye, what has been the best thing about being told that in fact you are transgender and these feelings you've had for so long were real?

T. CLARK: I've got to tell you, it is such a relief to find out what you finally are after, you know, years of just struggling with yourself. It is just a relief to really get a concrete definition of what you are, because I like to be in a box. And having that diagnosis of, yes, you are transgender is a really good place to start for me.


ZAHN: And what a journey he has traveled. Tye's doctors recommend that from the time he was diagnosed, he live for at least two years as a boy before pursuing any surgery. And he remains under the care of a psychiatrist and a psychologist.
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