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Old 06-24-2003, 11:14 AM   #76
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
homophobia...blah blah..

Look, you can't necessarily label people who think homosexuality is wrong as being "homophobic". Phobia means "fear". I'm sure some people are afraid of homosexuality, but many of us just think that it's wrong.

I think getting drunk is a sin...does that make me an "alcophobe"? I think adultery is wrong...does that make me an "adultephobe"?
Drunkeness and adultery are reasonable actions to think wrong for they can both be harmful to people. How is two people of the same sex loving each other harming anyone?
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:25 AM   #77
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80's here is probably drawing upon a verse in the old testement (levitus 18) which says it is an abomination for one man to lie with another

of course, this IS the OLD testement, and I don't think it's right to pick and choose what we want to follow from the old covenant, which is precisely that...OLD

there is a new covenant in which Jesus ends the old "purity" laws. If we are to follow the verse against homosexuality here, then we must also NEVER see a woman naked when she is menstrating...that is UNCLEAN
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:25 AM   #78
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Drunkeness and adultery are reasonable actions to think wrong for they can both be harmful to people. How is two people of the same sex loving each other harming anyone?
I'd have to agree with you. As a Christian, we are taught that homosexuality is wrong, yet we are alos taught to love thy neighbor. Question now lies, which statement is correct? Most people view me as a bad Christian for this, but I have decided to go with 'loving thy neighbor'. I may not agree with homosexuality, but I don't 'hate' or am afraid of same-sex relationships. Some of my closest friends are homosexual - both male and female. As a Christian, I think homosexuality is a wrong choice, but I don't judge my friends for that. I wouldn't be a good person if I judged someone for their sexuality. What's worse? A homo-sexual or a drug addict? Granted you have the whole aids issue with homo-sexuality, but the bottom line is, I know it's wrong, I know it's something I don't agree with and at times I think it's sick; yet that does not stop me from being friends. Homosexuals are wonderful people just like straight people. They have the same tastes in music, food, sports, they just like the same sex.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:30 AM   #79
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why do you know it's wrong.

Listen, I'm a christian, and I'm sick of all these people believing whatever their pastor says...or however he interpretes the bible.

If you stop to think for a moment maybe you might understand it's POSSIBLE to be taught wrong
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:35 AM   #80
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As a Christian, we are taught that homosexuality is wrong
Maybe as a Christian you were taught that homosexuality is wrong. I as a Christian, was not.

As far as your comment about aids, maybe you shoud do some research. AIDS is not a "gay disease".
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:51 AM   #81
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First of all - I'm not blaming aids on gays. Society, myself included, thinks that aids stems majorly from homosexuals. And in a sense, there is some truth behind that.

As for homosexuality being wrong, I was taught in church and by my parents that it's wrong. First time I told my parents that I had a gay friend, my dad said it was good that I wasn't at home or else he would have beaten me. Course, the one nice thing was that I didn't go to a public highschool. I went to a private arts highschool, where about 50 percent of the men there were gay, and they could be open about it and it was no big deal. It's the arts.

I agree that it's possible to be taught wrong. And I guess I used the wrong wording. To me, if it is something I would never do, I label it as wrong. For example - I'll never try any other drug except marijauana. I think it's wrong. IN fact, I don't smoke pot, because I think it's wrong. I don't drink...well because I don't like the taste of alcohol. So my definition of 'wrong' is more of a personal thing : if I won't do it, I won't do it because I think it's wrong. So in terms of this, yea, you're upbringing is extremely important to how you act and what your thoughts are as an adult. I was taught till 14 a lot of things were right and wrong. One of the things my father and and my pastor enforced was "Homosexuality is wrong....it's the work of Satan." Frankly, I wouldn't go as far as to call it the work of Satan, but it was something that would never interest me. I'm straight. So any kind of homosexual act that might pertain to me...I view as wrong. I'm not a homophobe,if you read my first post, I just...it's really hard to change your viewpoint with how you were raised for 14 years. For example, my grandparents were EXTREME racists. Luckily enough for my dad they gave him the choice to be a racist or not, and he choice to NOT be because he didn't see what the big deal was OF being a racist. He thought, "So their skin a different color...who gives a darn...I have terrible acne and moles on my body. Woppty-do."

I'm really sorry if offended anyone on my view of homosexuality. It's hard to want to think one way when your parents and minister BEAT a certain thought method in your head. Many of my friends are homosexual. I'm not nearly as bad when I was, when I was younger. HECK! Before I got into HS people thought I was gay because I was a classical musician. I had no friends till I turned 14. No one understood me. Attending Interlochen was the best four years of my life. I opened up my opinions and viewpoints and accepted a lot more. I can't change overnight on my opinion, but I am heading in that direction. 14 years ofbeing told what is right, whether it is right or wrong, and then being asked to change, it'sreally hard to do. If you met me as a teenager, you would have hated me. Now I'm acceptable. 10 years from now I hope to be respected and have dropped my views all together. It takestime. It doesn't happen overnight.
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Old 06-24-2003, 11:52 AM   #82
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jeez...its sad that we can't have our own beliefs about how we were taught in our christian churches. now it seems like we're being asked to throw away what we were taught because of a few laws that are being changed. we don't want to hurt any one's feelings now do we? it sucks that if we were taught that homosexuality is wrong, then we are wrong. my best friend was homosexual, and i miss him terribly. its like how jason put it...i dont agree with the lifestyle, but i didn't look at him any less. yes, im all for gay rights, and im not homophobic, so don't even go there.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:07 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
homophobia...blah blah..

Look, you can't necessarily label people who think homosexuality is wrong as being "homophobic". Phobia means "fear". I'm sure some people are afraid of homosexuality, but many of us just think that it's wrong.

I think getting drunk is a sin...does that make me an "alcophobe"? I think adultery is wrong...does that make me an "adultephobe"?
Homophobia is fear or or contempt for gay and lesbian people - not only fear.

And there is no comparison between believing drinking alcohol to be wrong and believing it's wrong to be gay. Drinking alcohol is something which individual people choose to do as and when they feel like it. Drinking is a choice. Being gay or lesbian isn't something which you choose to do, it's not just one small part of a person's life anymore than marriage/relationships are just a small part of a heterosexual person's life.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:09 PM   #84
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Originally posted by Basstrap
If we are to follow the verse against homosexuality here, then we must also NEVER see a woman naked when she is menstrating...that is UNCLEAN
Indeed. We'd also have to stop eating shellfish, not wear cloth made of two different materials and stone to death anyone who chooses to work on a Sunday. And don't forget that bit about selling your daugher into slavery - that's cool, just so long as you observe biblical guildelines on who you may sell her to.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:15 PM   #85
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Originally posted by U2Fan101
As a Christian, I think homosexuality is a wrong choice, but I don't judge my friends for that.
Why do you think it's a choice? I hate to use this cliche in response, but when did you decide you were heterosexual? Did any straight people here sit down and make a careful decision that they would like only people of the opposite sex to them?

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Granted you have the whole aids issue with homo-sexuality, but the bottom line is, I know it's wrong, I know it's something I don't agree with and at times I think it's sick
I hope I'm not interpreting your comments wrongly, but if you believe only gay people need to worry about AIDS then you need to learn about STDs right now. Anyone can catch AIDS: it doesn't discriminate on the basis of sexuality.

Out of curiosity, do you tell all your gay friends that at times you think they're sick? Or is that an opinion you keep to yourself? Feel free not to answer this if it's too much of a personal question.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:22 PM   #86
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Originally posted by icelle
jeez...its sad that we can't have our own beliefs about how we were taught in our christian churches. now it seems like we're being asked to throw away what we were taught because of a few laws that are being changed. we don't want to hurt any one's feelings now do we? it sucks that if we were taught that homosexuality is wrong, then we are wrong. my best friend was homosexual, and i miss him terribly. its like how jason put it...i dont agree with the lifestyle, but i didn't look at him any less. yes, im all for gay rights, and im not homophobic, so don't even go there.
Firstly - you're welcome to your own beliefs, just as people here are welcome to disagree with them. I don't believe anyone's been asked to change their opinions because of "a few laws that are being changed" rather people are being asked to reconsider whether it's really okay to dislike a person because of their sexuality.

Also, is being heterosexual a lifestyle?
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:42 PM   #87
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U2fan101, I'm not here to cast judgement upon your father or minister, but maybe you should rethink about any judgement that had to be "beaten" into your head. I'm sure they never had to "beat" the idea into your head that murder or stealing is wrong.

I just want someone to explain to me why they think it's wrong. What reason? I'm curious and would like a real explanation.
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Old 06-24-2003, 12:50 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Why do you think it's a choice? I hate to use this cliche in response, but when did you decide you were heterosexual? Did any straight people here sit down and make a careful decision that they would like only people of the opposite sex to them?



I hope I'm not interpreting your comments wrongly, but if you believe only gay people need to worry about AIDS then you need to learn about STDs right now. Anyone can catch AIDS: it doesn't discriminate on the basis of sexuality.

Out of curiosity, do you tell all your gay friends that at times you think they're sick? Or is that an opinion you keep to yourself? Feel free not to answer this if it's too much of a personal question.
I think it is a choice. We make our brains think something and think that is right or wrong. I choose to be straight. I chose to NOT drink or take drugs. I don't know when I decided I was a heterosexual, I just knew.

And again, with the aids thing...I know it's for both homosexuals and heterosexuals. I don't personally know 1 heterosexual with aids. Other STD's, yes. But not aids. I have known 6 homosexuals who had/have aids (the had is they passed on). Now they may have had other STD's, but I never heard of it. So you can see why I think the majority of people who have aids are/will be gay.

As for the sick thing, no, I keep it to myself. It's the actual PHYSICAL act that makes me sick. I'm fine when they talk, hold hands or whatever. But when they begin to talk about who did what sexually to the other person, ya know...THAT makes me sick. But I won't tell them..because I know it's wrong for me to. Why? Because I can sit and say what I did the other night with a girl, and men will think it's ok. I can listen to what men describe from their previous night and it's ok. I am uncomfortable with it when my friends go into their sexual details. THAT is what makes me sick. But I have no ground to stand and say "Please, I ask you politely to stop. It makes me uncomfortable when I hear you guys talk about that."
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:01 PM   #89
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Originally posted by U2Fan101


And again, with the aids thing...I know it's for both homosexuals and heterosexuals. I don't personally know 1 heterosexual with aids. Other STD's, yes. But not aids. I have known 6 homosexuals who had/have aids (the had is they passed on). Now they may have had other STD's, but I never heard of it. So you can see why I think the majority of people who have aids are/will be gay.

You need to do some research on the global aids problem...I certainly don't think the thousands of women and children with AIDS/HIV in Africa have been or ever will be gay. It is NOT a gay disease.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:01 PM   #90
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Originally posted by U2Fan101
I think it is a choice. We make our brains think something and think that is right or wrong. I choose to be straight. I chose to NOT drink or take drugs. I don't know when I decided I was a heterosexual, I just knew.
You say you just knew you were heterosexual, so why assume it's different for someone who's gay or lesbian? You didn't ever sit down and make a choice that you liked women, so why do you think a gay man ever sat down and decided he would like only men?

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So you can see why I think the majority of people who have aids are/will be gay.
With respect, you are speaking only on the basis of your very limited experiences. Look at sub-Saharan Africa, where AIDS is spreading faster than anywhere in the world: it's spreading through heterosexual sexual contact, and it's spreading from mother to child. AIDS affects anyone: it doesn't care if you're gay, lesbian or straight, anyone can be affected.

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As for the sick thing, no, I keep it to myself. It's the actual PHYSICAL act that makes me sick. I'm fine when they talk, hold hands or whatever. But when they begin to talk about who did what sexually to the other person, ya know...THAT makes me sick. But I won't tell them..because I know it's wrong for me to. Why? Because I can sit and say what I did the other night with a girl, and men will think it's ok. I can listen to what men describe from their previous night and it's ok. I am uncomfortable with it when my friends go into their sexual details. THAT is what makes me sick.
So you're fine with heterosexual people discussing their sex life, it just makes you sick if it's a gay person talking? The subject was discussed earlier in this thread, but do you feel the same way about lesbians? Are you disgusted by two women having sex, or is your contempt reserved only for gay men?
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