History made as gay couple marries in Toronto

[bonoman]

Ya but we all no that i am not alone in my thinking. I'm sure you could go to a site and have everyone disagree with you. It's all situational. But i fell that if i dont agree with same sex marriages it make me a bigot, well that what i fell others make me fell like.

 

[melon]

Why is that everyone here says they have the right to marry but it seems that i or other people dont have the right to disagree. I dont think its natural. Thats my opinion. You think it is natural. We disagree. But the only man that made this decsion is Jean (even though it had to be voted on, his word carries alot of power.) I would love to see a national vote on this issue.

Nature even disagrees with you. Homosexual animals are well-documented.

A national vote? If we went to a "national vote" regarding de-segregation in the South back in the 1960s in the U.S., I'd venture to say it would never have happened. Human rights shouldn't be about "popularity," nor should democracy be reduced to "mob rule."

You also happen to forget that your Constitution was written with equal rights in it. That was your "vote."

And to say a recent poll said 50% of people supported it i would like to see the territorial differences of that poll. For example, Alberta is much more conservative then say Quebec. That it is my right and the right of Alberta citizens to say we dont think it is right and not to have it in our provience.

Blah de blah blah. If you don't want a gay marriage, then don't have one. I would venture to say that your life hasn't changed one iota since the court rulings and nor would it change if gays were allowed to marry in Alberta. It's just like white supremacists blaming all their woes on Jews and blacks, when its their own stupidity at fault.

Where the hell is my hetero-pride week!

Everyday. Walk down the street and count the number of heterosexual couples holding hands or kissing in public. Go to church and listen to the all the exultations of heterosexual marriage. Go to work and watch your colleagues randomly ask co-workers about their relationships--always assumed to be heterosexual. Watch TV. Look at advertisements.

If you are so threatened by *one* Gay Pride day or month, then count your blessings with the rest of the year and shut up.

Melon

 

[wall]

gay marriage... that's fine with me...

gay adoption... now that i have a big problem with.

 

[melon]

gay adoption... now that i have a big problem with.

Right. Now tell me that all straight people are fit parents? And tell me that everyone here grew up with both their parents? Now, everyone here who didn't grow up with both their parents, tell me if you are defective as a result? No?

Ironically enough, this is already legal in every state but Florida. No, the world didn't implode, and, no, the children aren't turning gay.

Melon

 

[Michael Griffiths]

I agree, but wanted to point out the double standard that a lot of this society has. Why it would make one nervous is beyond me and why someone feels they have the right to outlaw others right to marry sickens me.

BonoVoxSupastar - I COMPLETELY agree with you, and I just had this same discussion with a friend a few days ago...I still don't know why straight men are so threatened by gay men and their lifestyle. It really has no barring on them or their lives. Yet, time and time again, we see straight men threatened by this very thing that has nothing to do with them. They aren't being asked to partake in homosexual activity or to go to gay bars or what have you. I find it very odd. It's really not logical. They are basically taking their own insecurities and stigmas and expecting everyone else (whether they've got the same insecurites and stigmas or not) to live according to those fears as well. It's really very strange when you think about it, isn't it? And you're right: it is sickening that people would take these fears so far as to use them as a "reason" to outlaw a common, basic human right. To quote a wise man, "Where's the reason in that?"

 

[U2Bama]

Nature even disagrees with you. Homosexual animals are well-documented.

Melon:

Although I agree with much of what you say from a fairness and human rights perspective, I do not think this is a very effective benchmark to use. Animals have also been observed in incestuous acts and in acts with other breeds (would we call that "beastiality"?).

bonoman:

You seem to be quickly learning that you are holding one of the "taboo" opinions amongst modern day social issues.

~U2Alabama

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I was going to mention that every single week is hetero-pride week, but melon put it much more eloquently.

 

[bonoman]

Nature even disagrees with you. Homosexual animals are well-documented.

A national vote? If we went to a "national vote" regarding de-segregation in the South back in the 1960s in the U.S., I'd venture to say it would never have happened. Human rights shouldn't be about "popularity," nor should democracy be reduced to "mob rule."

You also happen to forget that your Constitution was written with equal rights in it. That was your "vote."



Blah de blah blah. If you don't want a gay marriage, then don't have one. I would venture to say that your life hasn't changed one iota since the court rulings and nor would it change if gays were allowed to marry in Alberta. It's just like white supremacists blaming all their woes on Jews and blacks, when its their own stupidity at fault.



Everyday. Walk down the street and count the number of heterosexual couples holding hands or kissing in public. Go to church and listen to the all the exultations of heterosexual marriage. Go to work and watch your colleagues randomly ask co-workers about their relationships--always assumed to be heterosexual. Watch TV. Look at advertisements.

If you are so threatened by *one* Gay Pride day or month, then count your blessings with the rest of the year and shut up.

Melon

I love arguing with you, you get so crazy!!

You saying that because i can walk down the street and see more heterosexuals that homosexuals is obsurd. I never said you cant hold hands or kiss. Just dont think you are special for doing it. I recently asked a very pretty girl at work why she didnt have a b/f and she said she wasnt into guys. No big deal, but she didnt start yelling it out and making a big deal out of it. Things are changing, i agree, but rapid change will be meet with a equal disagreement. Unless the Church changes their view there will always be people who dont agree with you (and i am not going by the Church, it is my personal view.) Gay Pride week is something that i really dont agree with. It agravates people who disagree with it. It would be like if people who didnt agree with homosexuality had a parade on how much they think it is wrong. It would agravate you.

I dont know this is a sensitive issue for you and for me for my own personal reasons.

 

[anitram]

Gay Pride week is something that i really dont agree with. It agravates people who disagree with it.

I'm sure the Ku Klux Klan was aggravated by all of Martin Luther King's parades too.

I say, who gives a shit?

 

[melon]

Although I agree with much of what you say from a fairness and human rights perspective, I do not think this is a very effective benchmark to use. Animals have also been observed in incestuous acts and in acts with other breeds (would we call that "beastiality"?).

I wouldn't bring up the "incest" argument yourself, U2Bama. Religion has conveniently ignored Biblical prohibitions of incest, defined to be something like up to the 13th cousin. So does that mean that the U.S. should be rotting in hell for allowing close cousins to marry? Heck, Kentucky allows you to marry your first cousin.

As for pedophilia (another stupid argument against gays), it was certainly not something that the heterosexual world gave a rat's ass about until the last century. Marriage was certainly not consentual at all times (arranged marriages) and nor was it proportionate in age. I cannot count the number of 30-40 year old monarchs who married nine year-old children.

bonoman:

You seem to be quickly learning that you are holding one of the "taboo" opinions amongst modern day social issues.

Well, and watch you get all huffy when I call Southerners bigoted, ignorant redneck trailer trash, unemployed and on welfare who spend their daytime drinking and beating their wives in their left hand and preaching the Bible in their other with their Cracker Jack minister diploma.

Did I just say that?

Tolerance is a two-way street, and you know that isn't true of all Southerners, but prove me wrong. Any example you give, well, I can find a media stereotype to back me up.

And there's my frustration with these kinds of threads. I can tell people until I'm blue in the face that these are one-sided and ignorant generalizations about gay people, but no one seems to care. Of course, between this thread and the "negroes" thread, I can see that this world really is short of empathy and common sense these days.

Melon

P.S. I don't believe that about Southerners; it was a point that I was trying to make that I hope you understand the motivation for.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Go, melon!

That's all I have to say.

Angela

 

[Basstrap]

I don't disagree with it

but I do see an evolutionary argument to be made.

you look at the male and female bodies and it's obvious to see that naturally and biologically male belongs in female this is how the human race survives

of course, humans are capable of so many emotions and attachments, that this biological predisposition is not always the determining factor.
Love over biology

of course, if radical feminists have their way, males will be completely alienated from the reproductive process via artificial insimination.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I love arguing with you, you get so crazy!!

Do you take pride in the fact that homophobia is offensive to many people here?

You saying that because i can walk down the street and see more heterosexuals that homosexuals is obsurd. I never said you cant hold hands or kiss. Just dont think you are special for doing it.

Firstly, I'm sure walking down the street, one would see more heterosexual couples than gay couples. Secondly, when lesbian and gay couples try to act in public in the same way heterosexual couples behave, they all too often face an onslaught of abuse for it. Do you know of any heterosexual couples who have been verbally abused for holding hands in public? How often are heterosexual couples assaulted because they display their affection for one another in public?

We're not asking for anyone to think we're "special." We're asking that if we wish to act in the same way as thousands of heterosexual couples do everyday, we're free to do so without the fear of being insulted or even physically assaulted for doing so.

I recently asked a very pretty girl at work why she didnt have a b/f and she said she wasnt into guys. No big deal, but she didnt start yelling it out and making a big deal out of it.

One of my co-workers in my last job had about six or eight photographs of herself and her husband and children on her desk. She never stopped talking about her husband either. I'm fine with her being heterosexual, I just wish she didn't have to start yelling it out and making a big deal out of it.

Gay Pride week is something that i really dont agree with. It agravates people who disagree with it.

And anti-racist marches aggravate racists. Does that mean we should stop opposing racism because it annoys the racists? Bigots are always going to be annoyed by those who believe in acceptance and diversity - that's not a reason to allow their prejudiced views to go unchallenged.

 

[80sU2isBest]

homophobia...blah blah..

Look, you can't necessarily label people who think homosexuality is wrong as being "homophobic". Phobia means "fear". I'm sure some people are afraid of homosexuality, but many of us just think that it's wrong.

I think getting drunk is a sin...does that make me an "alcophobe"? I think adultery is wrong...does that make me an "adultephobe"?

 

[Basstrap]

so you think that a person who dies a gay person is damned to hell?

 

[BVS]

homophobia...blah blah..

Look, you can't necessarily label people who think homosexuality is wrong as being "homophobic". Phobia means "fear". I'm sure some people are afraid of homosexuality, but many of us just think that it's wrong.

I think getting drunk is a sin...does that make me an "alcophobe"? I think adultery is wrong...does that make me an "adultephobe"?

Drunkeness and adultery are reasonable actions to think wrong for they can both be harmful to people. How is two people of the same sex loving each other harming anyone?

 

[Basstrap]

80's here is probably drawing upon a verse in the old testement (levitus 18) which says it is an abomination for one man to lie with another

of course, this IS the OLD testement, and I don't think it's right to pick and choose what we want to follow from the old covenant, which is precisely that...OLD

there is a new covenant in which Jesus ends the old "purity" laws. If we are to follow the verse against homosexuality here, then we must also NEVER see a woman naked when she is menstrating...that is UNCLEAN

 

[U2Fan101]

Drunkeness and adultery are reasonable actions to think wrong for they can both be harmful to people. How is two people of the same sex loving each other harming anyone?

I'd have to agree with you. As a Christian, we are taught that homosexuality is wrong, yet we are alos taught to love thy neighbor. Question now lies, which statement is correct? Most people view me as a bad Christian for this, but I have decided to go with 'loving thy neighbor'. I may not agree with homosexuality, but I don't 'hate' or am afraid of same-sex relationships. Some of my closest friends are homosexual - both male and female. As a Christian, I think homosexuality is a wrong choice, but I don't judge my friends for that. I wouldn't be a good person if I judged someone for their sexuality. What's worse? A homo-sexual or a drug addict? Granted you have the whole aids issue with homo-sexuality, but the bottom line is, I know it's wrong, I know it's something I don't agree with and at times I think it's sick; yet that does not stop me from being friends. Homosexuals are wonderful people just like straight people. They have the same tastes in music, food, sports, they just like the same sex.

 

[Basstrap]

why do you know it's wrong.

Listen, I'm a christian, and I'm sick of all these people believing whatever their pastor says...or however he interpretes the bible.

If you stop to think for a moment maybe you might understand it's POSSIBLE to be taught wrong

 

[BVS]

As a Christian, we are taught that homosexuality is wrong

Maybe as a Christian you were taught that homosexuality is wrong. I as a Christian, was not.

As far as your comment about aids, maybe you shoud do some research. AIDS is not a "gay disease".

 

[U2Fan101]

First of all - I'm not blaming aids on gays. Society, myself included, thinks that aids stems majorly from homosexuals. And in a sense, there is some truth behind that.

As for homosexuality being wrong, I was taught in church and by my parents that it's wrong. First time I told my parents that I had a gay friend, my dad said it was good that I wasn't at home or else he would have beaten me. Course, the one nice thing was that I didn't go to a public highschool. I went to a private arts highschool, where about 50 percent of the men there were gay, and they could be open about it and it was no big deal. It's the arts.

I agree that it's possible to be taught wrong. And I guess I used the wrong wording. To me, if it is something I would never do, I label it as wrong. For example - I'll never try any other drug except marijauana. I think it's wrong. IN fact, I don't smoke pot, because I think it's wrong. I don't drink...well because I don't like the taste of alcohol. So my definition of 'wrong' is more of a personal thing : if I won't do it, I won't do it because I think it's wrong. So in terms of this, yea, you're upbringing is extremely important to how you act and what your thoughts are as an adult. I was taught till 14 a lot of things were right and wrong. One of the things my father and and my pastor enforced was "Homosexuality is wrong....it's the work of Satan." Frankly, I wouldn't go as far as to call it the work of Satan, but it was something that would never interest me. I'm straight. So any kind of homosexual act that might pertain to me...I view as wrong. I'm not a homophobe,if you read my first post, I just...it's really hard to change your viewpoint with how you were raised for 14 years. For example, my grandparents were EXTREME racists. Luckily enough for my dad they gave him the choice to be a racist or not, and he choice to NOT be because he didn't see what the big deal was OF being a racist. He thought, "So their skin a different color...who gives a darn...I have terrible acne and moles on my body. Woppty-do."

I'm really sorry if offended anyone on my view of homosexuality. It's hard to want to think one way when your parents and minister BEAT a certain thought method in your head. Many of my friends are homosexual. I'm not nearly as bad when I was, when I was younger. HECK! Before I got into HS people thought I was gay because I was a classical musician. I had no friends till I turned 14. No one understood me. Attending Interlochen was the best four years of my life. I opened up my opinions and viewpoints and accepted a lot more. I can't change overnight on my opinion, but I am heading in that direction. 14 years ofbeing told what is right, whether it is right or wrong, and then being asked to change, it'sreally hard to do. If you met me as a teenager, you would have hated me. Now I'm acceptable. 10 years from now I hope to be respected and have dropped my views all together. It takestime. It doesn't happen overnight.

 

[cell]

jeez...its sad that we can't have our own beliefs about how we were taught in our christian churches. now it seems like we're being asked to throw away what we were taught because of a few laws that are being changed. we don't want to hurt any one's feelings now do we? it sucks that if we were taught that homosexuality is wrong, then we are wrong. my best friend was homosexual, and i miss him terribly. its like how jason put it...i dont agree with the lifestyle, but i didn't look at him any less. yes, im all for gay rights, and im not homophobic, so don't even go there.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

homophobia...blah blah..

Look, you can't necessarily label people who think homosexuality is wrong as being "homophobic". Phobia means "fear". I'm sure some people are afraid of homosexuality, but many of us just think that it's wrong.

I think getting drunk is a sin...does that make me an "alcophobe"? I think adultery is wrong...does that make me an "adultephobe"?

Homophobia is fear or or contempt for gay and lesbian people - not only fear.

And there is no comparison between believing drinking alcohol to be wrong and believing it's wrong to be gay. Drinking alcohol is something which individual people choose to do as and when they feel like it. Drinking is a choice. Being gay or lesbian isn't something which you choose to do, it's not just one small part of a person's life anymore than marriage/relationships are just a small part of a heterosexual person's life.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

If we are to follow the verse against homosexuality here, then we must also NEVER see a woman naked when she is menstrating...that is UNCLEAN

Indeed. We'd also have to stop eating shellfish, not wear cloth made of two different materials and stone to death anyone who chooses to work on a Sunday. And don't forget that bit about selling your daugher into slavery - that's cool, just so long as you observe biblical guildelines on who you may sell her to.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

As a Christian, I think homosexuality is a wrong choice, but I don't judge my friends for that.

Why do you think it's a choice? I hate to use this cliche in response, but when did you decide you were heterosexual? Did any straight people here sit down and make a careful decision that they would like only people of the opposite sex to them?

Granted you have the whole aids issue with homo-sexuality, but the bottom line is, I know it's wrong, I know it's something I don't agree with and at times I think it's sick

I hope I'm not interpreting your comments wrongly, but if you believe only gay people need to worry about AIDS then you need to learn about STDs right now. Anyone can catch AIDS: it doesn't discriminate on the basis of sexuality.

Out of curiosity, do you tell all your gay friends that at times you think they're sick? Or is that an opinion you keep to yourself? Feel free not to answer this if it's too much of a personal question.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

jeez...its sad that we can't have our own beliefs about how we were taught in our christian churches. now it seems like we're being asked to throw away what we were taught because of a few laws that are being changed. we don't want to hurt any one's feelings now do we? it sucks that if we were taught that homosexuality is wrong, then we are wrong. my best friend was homosexual, and i miss him terribly. its like how jason put it...i dont agree with the lifestyle, but i didn't look at him any less. yes, im all for gay rights, and im not homophobic, so don't even go there.

Firstly - you're welcome to your own beliefs, just as people here are welcome to disagree with them. I don't believe anyone's been asked to change their opinions because of "a few laws that are being changed" rather people are being asked to reconsider whether it's really okay to dislike a person because of their sexuality.

Also, is being heterosexual a lifestyle?

 

[BVS]

U2fan101, I'm not here to cast judgement upon your father or minister, but maybe you should rethink about any judgement that had to be "beaten" into your head. I'm sure they never had to "beat" the idea into your head that murder or stealing is wrong.

I just want someone to explain to me why they think it's wrong. What reason? I'm curious and would like a real explanation.

 

[U2Fan101]

Why do you think it's a choice? I hate to use this cliche in response, but when did you decide you were heterosexual? Did any straight people here sit down and make a careful decision that they would like only people of the opposite sex to them?



I hope I'm not interpreting your comments wrongly, but if you believe only gay people need to worry about AIDS then you need to learn about STDs right now. Anyone can catch AIDS: it doesn't discriminate on the basis of sexuality.

Out of curiosity, do you tell all your gay friends that at times you think they're sick? Or is that an opinion you keep to yourself? Feel free not to answer this if it's too much of a personal question.

I think it is a choice. We make our brains think something and think that is right or wrong. I choose to be straight. I chose to NOT drink or take drugs. I don't know when I decided I was a heterosexual, I just knew.

And again, with the aids thing...I know it's for both homosexuals and heterosexuals. I don't personally know 1 heterosexual with aids. Other STD's, yes. But not aids. I have known 6 homosexuals who had/have aids (the had is they passed on). Now they may have had other STD's, but I never heard of it. So you can see why I think the majority of people who have aids are/will be gay.

As for the sick thing, no, I keep it to myself. It's the actual PHYSICAL act that makes me sick. I'm fine when they talk, hold hands or whatever. But when they begin to talk about who did what sexually to the other person, ya know...THAT makes me sick. But I won't tell them..because I know it's wrong for me to. Why? Because I can sit and say what I did the other night with a girl, and men will think it's ok. I can listen to what men describe from their previous night and it's ok. I am uncomfortable with it when my friends go into their sexual details. THAT is what makes me sick. But I have no ground to stand and say "Please, I ask you politely to stop. It makes me uncomfortable when I hear you guys talk about that."

 

[BAW]

And again, with the aids thing...I know it's for both homosexuals and heterosexuals. I don't personally know 1 heterosexual with aids. Other STD's, yes. But not aids. I have known 6 homosexuals who had/have aids (the had is they passed on). Now they may have had other STD's, but I never heard of it. So you can see why I think the majority of people who have aids are/will be gay.

You need to do some research on the global aids problem...I certainly don't think the thousands of women and children with AIDS/HIV in Africa have been or ever will be gay. It is NOT a gay disease.

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

I think it is a choice. We make our brains think something and think that is right or wrong. I choose to be straight. I chose to NOT drink or take drugs. I don't know when I decided I was a heterosexual, I just knew.

You say you just knew you were heterosexual, so why assume it's different for someone who's gay or lesbian? You didn't ever sit down and make a choice that you liked women, so why do you think a gay man ever sat down and decided he would like only men?

So you can see why I think the majority of people who have aids are/will be gay.

With respect, you are speaking only on the basis of your very limited experiences. Look at sub-Saharan Africa, where AIDS is spreading faster than anywhere in the world: it's spreading through heterosexual sexual contact, and it's spreading from mother to child. AIDS affects anyone: it doesn't care if you're gay, lesbian or straight, anyone can be affected.

As for the sick thing, no, I keep it to myself. It's the actual PHYSICAL act that makes me sick. I'm fine when they talk, hold hands or whatever. But when they begin to talk about who did what sexually to the other person, ya know...THAT makes me sick. But I won't tell them..because I know it's wrong for me to. Why? Because I can sit and say what I did the other night with a girl, and men will think it's ok. I can listen to what men describe from their previous night and it's ok. I am uncomfortable with it when my friends go into their sexual details. THAT is what makes me sick.

So you're fine with heterosexual people discussing their sex life, it just makes you sick if it's a gay person talking? The subject was discussed earlier in this thread, but do you feel the same way about lesbians? Are you disgusted by two women having sex, or is your contempt reserved only for gay men?