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Old 11-09-2005, 12:36 AM   #16
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Originally posted by DaveC
I've always wondered why, with the enormous amounts of oilsands in Alberta and wells in Nunavut and the Northwest Territories, the Canadian government doesn't try to sell more oil to the US. It seems to me that it would benefit immediate oil prices (the oil sands are already extremely active and the northern wells are just waiting to be drilled) instead of waiting a decade and a half before ANWR gets up to speed, and it would benefit the Canadian economy through increased exports, while benefiting US oil companies who don't have to ship it from either the far north of Alaska or the Persian Gulf.

Maybe I'm just reading the situation completely wrongly, too.

I have seen a tv program about the day minning of that oilsand, are you proud of the moonlandschaping ?
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Old 11-09-2005, 04:04 AM   #17
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Please take a look at these photographs from the Arctic Refuge. The photographer, Subhankar Banerjee, is someone I know through my work and his work is amazing.

http://www.wwbphoto.com/Photo1-61Icebergs.html
sorry, i don't have much to add to this discussion. i just wanted to thank joyful girl for posting that link.

picture number 10 nearly brought me to tears.

'...we live only by grace.'

beautiful.
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Old 11-09-2005, 04:17 AM   #18
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Great pics, joyfulgirl.
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Old 11-09-2005, 09:32 AM   #19
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Originally posted by Rono
I have seen a tv program about the day minning of that oilsand, are you proud of the moonlandschaping ?
I don't understand what you're asking...
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:01 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by lmjhitman

sorry, i don't have much to add to this discussion. i just wanted to thank joyful girl for posting that link.

picture number 10 nearly brought me to tears.

'...we live only by grace.'

beautiful.
Glad you all like the photos. A bit of history about his exhibit ...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/visual...2_burke25.html

His exhibit's first stop, in 2003, was nearly its last. Hoping to win hearts and minds, the artist was horrified to find himself denounced in Congress and virtually abandoned by the Smithsonian's National Museum of History, where his photos were going to be shown in the main rotunda.

A month before the opening, during a Senate debate about drilling for gas and oil in the refuge, Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) held up a Banerjee photo of a polar bear crossing a frozen harbor.

This was a response to drilling advocates, who claimed there was nothing there but, in Interior Secretary Gale A. Norton's phrase, "a flat white nothingness." She was following the line set down by Alaska's former senator Frank Murkowski, who had earlier called the refuge "a frozen wasteland of snow and ice" on the Senate floor.

Because Banerjee shows the area teeming with life, lawmakers such as Alaska's senior senator Ted Stevens were quick to express displeasure. Stevens called Banerjee and former president Jimmy Carter, who endorsed a book of the photos, liars.

The Smithsonian quickly moved the exhibit out of the rotunda and hung it in the equivalent of the basement without wall labels. A Washington Post reporter asking at the front desk for the show's location, was told (wrongly) that it had been canceled.
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:32 AM   #21
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I don't mean to be smart....but why is the Arctic uniquely deserving of protection?

And isn't oil a natural product too? I believe that it may be.

But perhaps we should go back to living in the trees, and have average life expectancies of 35. Or maybe not.

But overall, I don't take to hectoring threads like this, whether they come from the left or right.
The entire area isn't unique in deserving protection.

Most of the area is barren.

The environmentalists would have you think that drilling for oil will kill bambi.
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:38 AM   #22
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Originally posted by DaveC


I don't understand what you're asking...
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:48 AM   #23
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Most of the area is barren.
I think that it is because of this specfically that the area deserves to be protected. It's beauty lies in its very barreness. It is barren from any touches of mankind...one of the few places left this way. No roads, no restrooms, no fast food. Where else in the country is there a place like that? Our national parks are on their way to being transformed into amusement parks so why not protect the one place free of man's touches?
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:55 AM   #24
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The entire area isn't unique in deserving protection.

Most of the area is barren.

The environmentalists would have you think that drilling for oil will kill bambi.

Renowned for its wildlife, the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is inhabited by forty-five species of land and marine mammals, ranging from the pygmy shrew to the bowhead whale. It was established in 1960 as a promise to the American people to preserve "wildlife, wilderness, and recreational values." Vast and remote, this 19.5-million-acre refuge is the size of South Carolina. While 8.9 million acres are designated as wilderness, the 1.5-million-acre coastal plain, the biological heart of the Refuge, does not yet have wilderness designation. Oil drilling has been proposed on the coastal plain.

The Refuge shares a common border with Ivvavik and Vuntut National Parks in Canada, which in combination constitutes one of the largest conservation areas in the world. North to south, the Refuge extends 200 miles—from the Arctic coast, across the tundra plain, over glacier-capped peaks of the Brooks Range, and into the spruce and birch forests of the Yukon basin. The Refuge preserves a continuum of Arctic and sub-Arctic ecozones.

It contains the greatest variety of plant and animal life of any conservation area in the circumpolar north. It is home to thirty-six species of land mammals; nine marine mammal species live along its coast; thirty-six fish species inhabit its rivers and lakes; and 180 species of birds converge here from six continents.

Caribou migration
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Old 11-09-2005, 11:57 AM   #25
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Apparently the only kind of habitation that counts is the human variety.
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Old 11-09-2005, 03:45 PM   #26
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Yes, thanks for the photos, joyfulgirl. They are incredible.

This one...it's like looking back in time.

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Old 11-09-2005, 03:53 PM   #27
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Old 11-09-2005, 04:56 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Rono
Well, as bad as it is, the damage is already done. It's been done for years, too.

There's no reason to turn ANWR into that when there are oilsands already operational directly across the border.
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:28 PM   #29
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And don't forget the peril that the Endangered Species Act is in.

Personally, I just can't see what's so controversial about saying our natural environment.

Red and Blue people alike can enjoy trees, mountains, prairies, deserts. etc so I just can't understand why people would be against saving as much of our natural world as possible.
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Old 11-09-2005, 10:03 PM   #30
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The oil in the oilsands is much more difficult to extract. It's a lengthy process and as far as pollution goes, extremely damaging.

I don't think we need to sell anymore of our oil to the US at all. Frankly, I wish we'd kill NAFTA and that ridiculous agreement we have where we can't increase domestic production until we increase production to the Americans. We're their bitch for some extra cash. Pathetic. Brian Mulroney really did us in.
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