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Old 09-05-2002, 09:30 AM   #1
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help me understand

Why is it ok for the US to have weapons of mass destruction, but for other countries not to?

Why is it ok for the US to use military force to create "regime changes" in other countries, but for other countries not to?

Why is the US view of capitalism and "democracy" the standard that must be followed by other countries?

Why do we claim we are a country with no national religion, and yet our politicians invoke god and christianity at every opportunity?

Why is it ok for the US to be blatently pro-isreal only because it's a christian nation?

Why is it that the US thinks it can fight a war on two or more fronts in a region that is so unstable at the current moment and believe that the region will hold together?

Why has the current administration failed to use diplomacy and leave force as a last resort?

Why does the US think it is always right?

Why is it not possible to question out government or its policies without being labeled un-patriotic or un-american?



These are only a few of the questions that run through my head these days. I'm not looking for answers, but I just acan't understand why our president is so eager to go to war when so many people, both in our country and around the world, are urging caution. When Dick Armeny (is that the right name), a Republican with whom I have no commonality, speaks out against war, that's got to be something. Saddam Hussein may be trouble, but the risks involved with attacking Iraq at the current moment seem to be to great. Did we not learn from N. Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, that it is not the right of the US government or any nation to attack a country and attempt to change it's government because we don't like how they operate. Iraq isn't the only nation that sponsors terrrorism. So why are we so hell bent on them?

If we go to war, we're going to lose our allies, lose our superpower status, cause the complete collapse of the Middle East, and probably destroy our credibility for many many many years to come.

George Bush Sr. understood foreign policy. Colin Powel understands foreign policy. Bush Jr. does not. He has no experiance in this matter, and it is showing. He is pissing off other countries left and right. What does it say when the one person in the Administration, Powel, who actually was a part of the Gulf War, is not supporting the idea?

I hate war, but I understand that sometimes you have to do it. But in this case, I think we're in the wrong.
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:08 AM   #2
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Are you not the same person who opposed war in afghanistan ?

Are you not the same person who said USA couldnt topple Taliban ?

Are you not the same person who waits for innocent people to get killed before taking any action ?

Are you not the same person who turned a blind eye to september 11 because you had other important things to do
that day.

Are you not the same person doesnot mind Saddam possesing a nuclear weapon and using it against USA or any other country ?

This is not a question of America. This is a question of civilised & democratic world. This is question of right and wrong.

Saddam has a history behind him that proves that he will use his nuclear weapon as and when he posses/acquires against USA or Kuwait or for that matter any other country.

I am not against war but it should be used if Saddam cannot be toppled by any other means.

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Old 09-05-2002, 11:31 AM   #3
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we are NICE and RESPECTFUL in fym

Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
There are something you should better try not to understand because you simply cant understand.
this is not acceptable. popkid has rhetorical questions, and had shaped them not to a person, but to a nation. now, if you have a problem with what popkid asked/posted, i will ask you to please address the issue, explain why you feel the way you do, or just simply state that you disagree. do NOT just tell someone they don't understand and they should just give up.
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:43 AM   #4
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I'll try to help you understand...but these answers are just my opinion....

Why is it ok for the US to have weapons of mass destruction, but for other countries not to?
Lots of countries, including the US, have weapons of mass destruction. Some people are afraid that Saddam will use them, that is why they don't want him to have them.

Why is it ok for the US to use military force to create "regime changes" in other countries, but for other countries not to?

Good question. I guess it's because the US is making the rules.

Why is the US view of capitalism and "democracy" the standard that must be followed by other countries?

See previous answer. Plus, people think it's a system that has worked very well for the US.

Why do we claim we are a country with no national religion, and yet our politicians invoke god and christianity at every opportunity?
Because many of our politicians, who are free to practice whatever religion they choose, practice some form of christianity.

Why is it ok for the US to be blatently pro-isreal only because it's a christian nation?
Um...you're not saying Israel is a christian nation, are you?

Why is it that the US thinks it can fight a war on two or more fronts in a region that is so unstable at the current moment and believe that the region will hold together?
Why does an entrepreneur think his business will succeed? He's looked at the situation and thinks he can make it work. He knows it's not a sure thing, but feels he's got to try it. Sometimes entrepreneurs succeed. Sometimes they fail. My guess is the US government is in a similar situation.

Why has the current administration failed to use diplomacy and leave force as a last resort?
I assume you're talking about the situation with Iraq, not Afghanistan. I still think I would disagree with you. Iraq agreed to weapons inspections, but has not allowed them as agreed. Diplomacy has been tried for the last 10 years. How many times do we say "let the inspectors in, or else..." without consequences? Maybe more work could be done using diplomacy, but I certainly don't think it hasn't been used.

Why does the US think it is always right?
Because it's just like every other nation in the history of the world.

Why is it not possible to question out government or its policies without being labeled un-patriotic or un-american?
Because there are enough foolish people around who think it's un-patriotic or un-american to question or government or its policies.
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:44 AM   #5
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just to add to one point there...the one about forcing their own conception of democracy and capitalism upon newly freed countries.

Half the reason why there is so much poverty in the world is because the west has for too long shoved their their model of industrialization and democracy upon newly independant countries.
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Old 09-05-2002, 12:46 PM   #6
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Re: we are NICE and RESPECTFUL in fym

Quote:
Originally posted by Lilly


this is not acceptable. popkid has rhetorical questions, and had shaped them not to a person, but to a nation. now, if you have a problem with what popkid asked/posted, i will ask you to please address the issue, explain why you feel the way you do, or just simply state that you disagree. do NOT just tell someone they don't understand and they should just give up.
Well I withdrew my statement though there was no need for it.
I understand you are the moderator out here.

I just meant there are many things we dont understand and that was a generic statement. I are lots of things I've tried to understand and then gave up on. My statement wasnot directed towards anyone whereas he/she clearly was clearly targetting a particular nation.

Why is anti-americanism a fashion inside america and outside it ?

AcrobatMan
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Old 09-05-2002, 12:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by popkidu2
Why is it not possible to question out government or its policies without being labeled un-patriotic or un-american?
Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan
What is anti-americanism a fashion inside america and outside it ?
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Old 09-05-2002, 02:57 PM   #8
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i just earned a minor. today.

Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan


Well I withdrew my statement though there was no need for it.
I understand you are the moderator out here.

I just meant there are many things we dont understand and that was a generic statement. I are lots of things I've tried to understand and then gave up on. My statement wasnot directed towards anyone whereas he/she clearly was clearly targetting a particular nation.
AcrobatMan

thank you for being so respectful, it is well appreciated. i misunderstood your comment, i assumed you were saying that popkid should not try to understand cos he/she couldn't understand, but i now see what you were saying. again, thank you for your kindness.
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Old 09-05-2002, 06:09 PM   #9
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Why is it we have 2 (not 1) threads about the same old day-in-day-out crap started in here? Why is it that 2 (not 1) mods have witnessed this and it is still open, if not welcomed? Why is it that as soon as one of the minority (AcrobatMan) voices the minority opinion a mod jumps his case? This is proof of what I and the other 6 or 7 folks have been saying in here all along.


By the way, thanks AcrobatMan
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase
Why is it ok for the US to be blatently pro-isreal only because it's a christian nation?
Um...you're not saying Israel is a christian nation, are you?
I think popkidu2 is referring to the Christian belief (maybe not all Christians) that Israel is a nation protected by God, so naturally some Christians would be pro-Israel. The idea is that no matter what, other nations (Palestine, Greece, Persia etc) will never be able to destroy the nation of Israel.
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:39 PM   #11
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Re: help me understand

Quote:
Originally posted by popkidu2
Why is it ok for the US to have weapons of mass destruction, but for other countries not to?

Ponder this for a moment.

The only man currently on this planet who has ever used WMDs is Saddam Hussein.

That's why we don't want him rehabilitating his WMD programs.
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Old 09-06-2002, 10:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spyplane
Why is it that as soon as one of the minority (AcrobatMan) voices the minority opinion a mod jumps his case? This is proof of what I and the other 6 or 7 folks have been saying in here all along.
Lilly was just doing her job. She thought that something disrespectful had been said to another member, and she intervened in a polite way. There is nothing wrong with that.

With some of the nastiness that has ensued in this forum, you can't help but keep your guard up a bit as a FYM mod, I'd imagine. This forum must be the hardest to moderate.
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Old 09-06-2002, 11:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spiral_Staircase
I'll try to help you understand...but these answers are just my opinion....

Why is it ok for the US to have weapons of mass destruction, but for other countries not to?
Lots of countries, including the US, have weapons of mass destruction. Some people are afraid that Saddam will use them, that is why they don't want him to have them.

Why is it ok for the US to use military force to create "regime changes" in other countries, but for other countries not to?

Good question. I guess it's because the US is making the rules.

Why is the US view of capitalism and "democracy" the standard that must be followed by other countries?

See previous answer. Plus, people think it's a system that has worked very well for the US.

Why do we claim we are a country with no national religion, and yet our politicians invoke god and christianity at every opportunity?
Because many of our politicians, who are free to practice whatever religion they choose, practice some form of christianity.

Why is it ok for the US to be blatently pro-isreal only because it's a christian nation?
Um...you're not saying Israel is a christian nation, are you?

Why is it that the US thinks it can fight a war on two or more fronts in a region that is so unstable at the current moment and believe that the region will hold together?
Why does an entrepreneur think his business will succeed? He's looked at the situation and thinks he can make it work. He knows it's not a sure thing, but feels he's got to try it. Sometimes entrepreneurs succeed. Sometimes they fail. My guess is the US government is in a similar situation.

Why has the current administration failed to use diplomacy and leave force as a last resort?
I assume you're talking about the situation with Iraq, not Afghanistan. I still think I would disagree with you. Iraq agreed to weapons inspections, but has not allowed them as agreed. Diplomacy has been tried for the last 10 years. How many times do we say "let the inspectors in, or else..." without consequences? Maybe more work could be done using diplomacy, but I certainly don't think it hasn't been used.

Why does the US think it is always right?
Because it's just like every other nation in the history of the world.

Why is it not possible to question out government or its policies without being labeled un-patriotic or un-american?
Because there are enough foolish people around who think it's un-patriotic or un-american to question or government or its policies.
I agree with just about all of this.
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Old 09-06-2002, 12:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spyplane
This is proof of what I and the other 6 or 7 folks have been saying in here all along.
I'm sick and tired of you blaming everything you don't like in FYM on the mods
if you have 1 good arguement why this thread should be closed but why I wouldn't delete your numerous posts in here of planes dropping bombs then I might give it another thought

I'm not going to close/delete threads because you vehemently disagree with the content
as far as I'm concerned popkid has as much right posting his opinion as you do posting yours
and if that makes me a liberal loving/conservative bashing/bush wacking/US hating fuck in your eyes, well, bite me

if you have problems with any of the mods mail elvis or sicy about it
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Old 09-06-2002, 01:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
I'm sick and tired of you blaming everything you don't like in FYM on the mods
if you have 1 good arguement why this thread should be closed but why I wouldn't delete your numerous posts in here of planes dropping bombs then I might give it another thought
Well first off, this is FREE YOUR MIND, or isn't it? I have the right to post plane pics, just as other people have the right to post that Bush = Hitler and USA=murderous and so on. Get the point? Of course, where this thread is against your forum rules is it is yet another spinoff thread of the same topic.

If you moderate this forum you would realize that this anti-Bush anti-AMerican US-bashing takes place in 2-3 threads a day.

Yet your entire post here is putting words in my mouth derived from my little statement of "why do we allow/(which leads to) encourage this type of thread(s). Look around Salome, there are 4 threads like this open currently.

Quote:
I'm not going to close/delete threads because you vehemently disagree with the content
as far as I'm concerned popkid has as much right posting his opinion as you do posting yours
Did I ask you to delete anything?

Quote:
and if that makes me a liberal loving/conservative bashing/bush wacking/US hating fuck in your eyes, well, bite me
Is this really necessary?

That I take this type of abuse constantly from members and now again you, a mod?

And did I even state this type of content anywhere?

I request you keep your insults and profanity away from me, as I do not appreciate it. I also wish if you actually have anything to say about this matter that you do so in a tone demonstrated by me in my reply to you in one of the other spinoff threads of this topic.

Quote:
if you have problems with any of the mods mail elvis or sicy about it

You are way out of line. You can bet I will.

I am tired to death of the intolerance in here by so many of so few.

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