heaven is hell - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-24-2006, 10:41 AM   #16
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2Girl1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: At the altar of the dark star
Posts: 19,374
Local Time: 04:53 AM
I think his answers are interesting. I'm going to come back later and give my thoughts.
__________________

__________________
U2Girl1978 is offline  
Old 03-24-2006, 11:44 AM   #17
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy
Personally I find The Serenity Prayer comes as close to a universal truth as we can currently get.


i totally understand that as a good answer to the whole Best Life Now -- but, if we are to deal with notions of the eternal, where does this get us beyond the day-to-day? and even after a while, doesn't the consistent maintenance of the day-to-day attitudes of acceptance and resiliance wear you down? isn't something like this prayer like soothing aloe on a sunburn -- makes it more bearable, but doesn't treat the problem, and the problem is what are we to do with out two choices: 1) from existence to non-existence, and how these might just be opposite sides of the same coin, and 2) if we are eternal, how do we deal with precisely that, eternity?

i know, i know ... pointness, ultimately, but i think there's some worth in trying to investigate the borders of human perception of the "big" questions, and i think what i'm expressing is that i really want an Answer, but what might that Answer be? and would it be a "good" Answer? and how do we deal with the Answer to the fundamental question(s) of human existence? is self-awareness a blessing or a curse?
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-24-2006, 01:08 PM   #18
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 08:53 AM
I think of heaven as a state, not a place. I mean, if it's a place, wouldn't it have to be near some planet or galaxy or something? I just don't see it in any place. It doesn't make sense that it's in a place that supposedly isn't habitable by human beings. Could it be that the part that limits us in that way is the perishable part of our beings and it is indeed a place where we've gotten rid of that limitation, and therefore we can live there after all? Does this make sense?
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 03-24-2006, 03:38 PM   #19
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

i totally understand that as a good answer to the whole Best Life Now -- but, if we are to deal with notions of the eternal, where does this get us beyond the day-to-day? and even after a while, doesn't the consistent maintenance of the day-to-day attitudes of acceptance and resiliance wear you down?
Hmm I guess I interpret the day-to-day philosophy more as steps forward to the eternal and an evolving learning process as opposed to maintenance. The further along you go, the more you discover and differentiate between what you must accept (surrender to His Will and let go of fear) and what you can change (i.e. learning from mistakes)...and then hopefully summon the courage and confidence to act accordingly and find peace with it. Because this journey is from the inside out and is so personal and individual, it makes it hard (for me anyway) to travel it in a conventional "church" framework where conformity to a prescribed common path is the norm.


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
isn't something like this prayer like soothing aloe on a sunburn -- makes it more bearable, but doesn't treat the problem, and the problem is what are we to do with out two choices: 1) from existence to non-existence, and how these might just be opposite sides of the same coin, and 2) if we are eternal, how do we deal with precisely that, eternity?
For some people maybe this prayer simply makes the struggle bearable. For me it inspires me to enjoy my struggle as much as possible, constantly move forward in a quest for enlightenment, prioritze and reprioritize the things that are important to me and not sweat the small stuff (and the constant discovery of what encompasses the small stuff lol).

Answers to eternity...hmmm, I think the closer you are to REAL peace with yourself and the way you live your life the less you will view eternity as problematic and something to fear.


Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

i know, i know ... pointness, ultimately, but i think there's some worth in trying to investigate the borders of human perception of the "big" questions, and i think what i'm expressing is that i really want an Answer, but what might that Answer be? and would it be a "good" Answer? and how do we deal with the Answer to the fundamental question(s) of human existence? is self-awareness a blessing or a curse?
Oh I like pushing the boundaries myself cause for each of us, the Answer evolves with learning and experience.

But...if you were given 6 months to live, would you worry about finding the absolute Answer or focus your time-and -place-bound energy on the here and now accomplishments?
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 03-24-2006, 03:42 PM   #20
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy
But...iIf you were given 6 months to live, would you worry about finding the absolute Answer or focus your time-and -place-bound energy on the here and now accomplishments?


great post, but i'll just respond to this part.

if given 6 months to live, i think i'd probably fill my days on filling the here-and-now with as much joy as possible, but i don't see how i could be able to NOT dwell on the fear of what happens next/where do i go from here/what is going to happen to me, especially during quieter and more reflective moments. how could that not induce anxiety in someone?

i also wonder where we draw the line between acceptance, and submission, and ultimately we must submit to things larger than ourselves, is this not ultimately a defeat? have we not been set up from the beginning?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-24-2006, 04:05 PM   #21
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

but i don't see how i could be able to NOT dwell on the fear of what happens next/where do i go from here/what is going to happen to me, especially during quieter and more reflective moments. how could that not induce anxiety in someone?
Oh I imagine it's horribly fearful at first, and maybe for some who don't (or won't) make peace with themselves and God, it's fearful all the way to the end. I think being given a deadline so to speak just speeds up the process and allows you to focus only on what's important to you and how to prepare.

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

i also wonder where we draw the line between acceptance, and submission, and ultimately we must submit to things larger than ourselves, is this not ultimately a defeat? have we not been set up from the beginning?
Excellent points. I think you draw the line between acceptance and submission at the point where you feel no nagging doubt (as in complete peace with the decision of acceptance). That way it's not defeat. If you submit to something larger than yourself and feel defeated, keep fighting.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline  
Old 03-24-2006, 10:53 PM   #22
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
angelordevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Inside a sound
Posts: 5,827
Local Time: 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




great post, but i'll just respond to this part.

if given 6 months to live, i think i'd probably fill my days on filling the here-and-now with as much joy as possible, but i don't see how i could be able to NOT dwell on the fear of what happens next/where do i go from here/what is going to happen to me, especially during quieter and more reflective moments. how could that not induce anxiety in someone?

I used to dwell on the big questions quite a bit when I was younger. I still do, and in many ways, I'm much more intrigued now with the possibilities than ever before. However, I've reached the point now where I'm in complete awe of existence, instead of overanalyzing it, or fearing it, like I once did.

Heaven? I think it's in our hearts, as corny as that sounds. I don't think it's a mysterious, cloudy place where they play Radiohead all day in the elevators (although that would be sweet). I believe we are vessels for something greater that's beyond our grasp and comprehension right now; maybe our bodies are just suits for our souls.

I'm not afraid of dying...my own death. The only concern I have about death is wondering about everyone I care about here on earth. It would be great to meet up with them again on the other side of the galaxy, in some form or another.
__________________
angelordevil is offline  
Old 03-25-2006, 08:53 AM   #23
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: full of sound and fury
Posts: 3,386
Local Time: 09:53 PM
Wow Irvine this reminds me of the film "Afterlife" by Japanese director Koreeda. You might enjoy renting it out.

foray
__________________
foray is offline  
Old 03-25-2006, 02:15 PM   #24
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
if we have existence, we must then have non-existence, so would we know non-existence if it were to occur?...does a consciousness ever creep into non-existence?
................................................................
if we are eternal, how do we deal with precisely that, eternity?

...pointness, ultimately, but i think there's some worth in trying to investigate the borders of human perception of the "big" questions, and i think what i'm expressing is that i really want an Answer, but what might that Answer be?...is self-awareness a blessing or a curse?
.................................................................
i also wonder where we draw the line between acceptance, and submission, and ultimately we must submit to things larger than ourselves, is this not ultimately a defeat? have we not been set up from the beginning?
It strikes me that these are three very good reasons to pursue your interest in Buddhist study and practice further. I know of no other religion that has the particular place you seem to be at mapped out more thoroughly.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 03-25-2006, 02:17 PM   #25
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AliEnvy
I think you draw the line between acceptance and submission at the point where you feel no nagging doubt (as in complete peace with the decision of acceptance). That way it's not defeat. If you submit to something larger than yourself and feel defeated, keep fighting.
beautifully said.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 07:50 PM   #26
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,494
Local Time: 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

It strikes me that these are three very good reasons to pursue your interest in Buddhist study and practice further. I know of no other religion that has the particular place you seem to be at mapped out more thoroughly.


i think i might do that.

got a bunch of Tich Naht Hahn books sitting on my shelf right now.

a formal course might be great as well.

thanks.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 03-26-2006, 08:08 PM   #27
War Child
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 760
Local Time: 08:53 AM
I believe notions of an eternal afterlife -- immortality -- are really human desires to continue that one thing that we experience constantly, i.e. life. In fact, if people think about it, what we have right now is itself immortality. All we individual minds have ever known is life, to exist, and all we'll ever know and experience and perceive (at least for this athiest) is life. Isn't that immortality? The fact that we see others' death and what we infer from it (i.e. notion of non-immortality) can be a mere(!) psychological hurdle to overcome (ironically, most seem to want to overcome it by inventing an eternal afterlife).
__________________

__________________
Judah is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com