Heated Confrontation?

[Vincent Vega]

Yes, having a country of three hundred million individual minds you are very likely to offend someone by doing or saying something, especially if it is such a controversial and emotional topic as it is the Iraq war.

But you can't limit freedeom of speech so that everybody always feels fine about everything.
There are some restrictions, like hate speech, or like in Europe the denial of the Holocaust, which some claim even does more bad than good, recently broad up by one of the most important representatives of the Jews in Germany, but overall freedom of speech is one of the most important values gained by our society, and has to be protected.

So many people have died for it, and are still dying or suffering for it, and we don't do ourself any favour if we cut it only always someone disagrees with something.

You can't make everybody feel comfortable.
If they want their son's name removed, make an appointment, meet in a nice atmosphere and discuss it in a quiet temper.
Then a compromise could be reached.

 

[Justin24]

Just out of curiosity, why is it that there nothing wrong with saying "something is so gay," but using a person's name in a memorial is wrong?

The problem is here in the bay area this sign has been a huge controversy. Some parents of dead US soldiers did not want their childs name used for propoganda means.

 

[Justin24]

Yes, having a country of three hundred million individual minds you are very likely to offend someone by doing or saying something, especially if it is such a controversial and emotional topic as it is the Iraq war.

But you can't limit freedeom of speech so that everybody always feels fine about everything.
There are some restrictions, like hate speech, or like in Europe the denial of the Holocaust, which some claim even does more bad than good, recently broad up by one of the most important representatives of the Jews in Germany, but overall freedom of speech is one of the most important values gained by our society, and has to be protected.

So many people have died for it, and are still dying or suffering for it, and we don't do ourself any favour if we cut it only always someone disagrees with something.

You can't make everybody feel comfortable.
If they want their son's name removed, make an appointment, meet in a nice atmosphere and discuss it in a quiet temper.
Then a compromise could be reached.

I know denying the holocaust can get you jail time in some european countries, do you think that is wrong?

 

[BVS]

Do you really want to know what the problem is? People get offended by one word and then they want it banned or they person should not be allowed to speak and usually they gather a croud of supporters.

So freedom of speech should only be allowed when someone is offended by a word?

 

[Justin24]

Good grief!

This is what I mean by you not really understanding the topic because it's patently obvious that there are limits on your freedom of speech (and expression) and those limits have been enforced.

Sometimes I think you start these threads and then just keep arguing for the sake of arguing rather than actually having some point for which you truly stand.

I have made my stance, but you don't seem to understand.

 

[BonosSaint]

Not quite what I meant by balance. I meant how do you balance freedom of speech with the consequences it can have?

Someone could balance it out by a yearly memorial to murder victims if they wanted to. I'm still thinking on suicides. What would the statement be on suicides?

 

[Vincent Vega]

I know denying the holocaust can get you jail time in some european countries, do you think that is wrong?

I can try to gather the interview with the Jewish representative.
He made some very good points.

I'm not too sure what to think about it.
He said by not allowing them to openly admit that they don't believe the Holocaust happened there can't be any publicly argument showing the youth, which is especially vulnerable to the shit from the Nazis, how stupid those people are and how weak their points made.

Especially here in Germany this public discussion rarely takes place because either there are restrictions on what you are allwoed to say, or these people just get ignored. But by ignoring them they get out their wrong propaganda unchallenged.

To deny the Holocaust is outright stupid, and there are of course aguments for banning it, and arguments for allowing it.

 

[Justin24]

You can't prepare for what people say.

That people need help and you should know the signs of someone who is suicidal???

 

[Justin24]

To deny the Holocaust is outright stupid.

 

[Diemen]

No, it's you who doesn't understand this topic, Justin. Your stance is incredibly inconsistent, and downright contradictory with the established law of freedom of speech. It's a basic right, and yet you seem to be perfectly ok to take it away because there's "controversy."

But do you? A few post back you said:

Do you really want to know what the problem is? People get offended by one word and then they want it banned or they person should not be allowed to speak and usually they gather a croud of supporters.

The way that comes across is that you're complaining about those people who gather a crowd of supporters. Well tell me, how is your stance on this topic any different? Aren't you trying to gain support because you're offended that these people won't take the names off?

If you didn't contradict yourself so often, your stance might have a little more credibility.

 

[BVS]

If you didn't contradict yourself so often, your stance might have a little more credibility.

 

[Justin24]

No, it's you who doesn't understand this topic, Justin. Your stance is incredibly inconsistent, and downright contradictory with the established law of freedom of speech. It's a basic right, and yet you seem to be perfectly ok to take it away because there's "controversy."

But do you? A few post back you said:


The way that comes across is that you're complaining about those people who gather a crowd of supporters. Well tell me, how is your stance on this topic any different? Aren't you trying to gain support because you're offended that these people won't take the names off?

If you didn't contradict yourself so often, your stance might have a little more credibility.

Yes or No do you think there should be limits?

 

[Justin24]

No, it's you who doesn't understand this topic, Justin. Your stance is incredibly inconsistent, and downright contradictory with the established law of freedom of speech. It's a basic right, and yet you seem to be perfectly ok to take it away because there's "controversy."

But do you? A few post back you said:


The way that comes across is that you're complaining about those people who gather a crowd of supporters. Well tell me, how is your stance on this topic any different? Aren't you trying to gain support because you're offended that these people won't take the names off?

If you didn't contradict yourself so often, your stance might have a little more credibility.

Umm but by having them ban a word, would mean freedom of speech is being taken away?

 

[BVS]

Why? Why do you want limits? In this instance?

 

[Justin24]

Why? Why do you want limits? In this instance?

I don't want limits I just want those people who put up the memorial to respect the parents wishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[anitram]

Limits to what?

Freedom of expression? THERE ARE LIMITS!!!

It's like banging your head against the wall.

 

[BVS]

I don't want limits I just want those people who put up the memorial to respect the parents wishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet you don't give a shit about someone's wishes when they use the word 'gay' as a deragatory.

 

[Justin24]

Limits to what?

Freedom of expression? THERE ARE LIMITS!!!

It's like banging your head against the wall.

What limits would those be?

 

[Diemen]

Justin!

There is absolutely NO LEGAL RIGHT for the parents to force anyone to take their son's name off. THEREFORE, the builders of the memorial have no legal obligation to do so!

With that said, this whole conversation can basically boil down to:

Justin: I don't like it

Everyone else: Ok, that's fine. "I don't like it" is not a good enough reason to cancel freedom of speech.

End of story!

 

[Justin24]

Yet you don't give a shit about someone's wishes when they use the word 'gay' as a deragatory.

That other thread on "That's so gay" was never aimed towards anyone.

 

[indra]

I don't want limits I just want those people who put up the memorial to respect the parents wishes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps, in the spirit of compassion, they should remove the name. But the law doesn't require them to do so. Period.

There is really no grey in this case.

 

[Justin24]

Justin!

There is absolutely NO LEGAL RIGHT for the parents to force anyone to take their son's name off. THEREFORE, the builders of the memorial have no legal obligation to do so!

With that said, this whole conversation can basically boil down to:

Justin: I don't like it

Everyone else: Ok, that's fine. "I don't like it" is not a good enough reason to cancel freedom of speech.

End of story!

But there are other instances where people are forced to and it' supported by people aquí.

 

[BVS]

That other thread on "That's so gay" was never aimed towards anyone.

You're not getting this because you aren't listening to people.

You want freedom of speech squashed due to someone's wishes. It doesn't matter if it's aimed at anyone or not, it's still someone's wishes.

Wishes DON'T DICTATE free speech!!!

 

[BVS]

But there are other instances where people are forced to and it' supported by people aquí.

Name one Justin! Just one.

 

[Justin24]

Perhaps, in the spirit of compassion, they should remove the name. But the law doesn't require them to do so. Period.

There is really no grey in this case.

Ok but why do we ban some books here in the US?

 

[Diemen]

Perhaps, in the spirit of compassion, they should remove the name. But the law doesn't require them to do so. Period.

There is really no grey in this case.

I'm just going to quote and emphasize that for good measure.

 

[BVS]

Ok but why do we ban some books here in the US?

Who's banned a book?

 

[Justin24]

Name one Justin! Just one.

The "That's so Gay" thread. How many people did I hear say she should not have said that , which implies that it's forbidden?

 

[anitram]

What limits would those be?

You'd have to look at specifically the court decisions in your state/country. They are likely similar to ours, but not necessarily.

Violence is not permissible as a form of expression. Hate speech may or may not be permissible depending on the context. Certain forms of expression in public places may not be permissible, depending on context. Certain types of advertising may not be permissible under a freedom of speech clause. Etc, etc, etc.

 

[Justin24]

Who's banned a book?

Organizations and I think States, I could be wrong?