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Old 02-01-2006, 12:17 PM   #76
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Originally posted by Irvine511



oh, okay, now you've created a comparison instead of implying that there simply was one and using that as the basis of an argument.

i think there's a huge, huge difference between the amount of women, pre-Roe, who had back-alley abortions (most probably not by coat hangers, but the methods use back then were probably little better) and the amount of people who have been the vicitm of a terrorist attack in the US. one is a reference to a technique that has become a symbol of a reason why abortion was made legal -- to protect women, and to enable women to determine when they will and will not be pregnant -- that has a strong historical basis in reality.

the "terror alert system" is a very modern creation, was used as little more than a political tool (as Tom Ridge has since admitted) to frighten urban residents and the nation at large with ominious warnings of unspecified threats -- you didn't know where, you didn't know when, you didn't know how, but somewhere something awful was going to happen, and the televised images of 9-11 were often invoked to lend credibility to this sense of fear.

the difference is that a coat hanger represents a long and specific history of a procedure that has affected thousands (millions?) of women with limited choice and agency, and the terror-alert system represents a murky threat that might or might not happen to someone at any given time.

there's a world of difference.

under the broad banner of "Political Symbols Used to Mean Things," there's a comparison. but that's about it.
My point was you relied on a symbol instead of establishing an argument. The impact of the coat hanger in this context is well recognized. I only asked for substance to your base argument.
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:23 PM   #77
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My point was you relied on a symbol instead of establishing an argument. The impact of the coat hanger in this context is well recognized. I only asked for substance to your base argument.


since it is so well recognized, the symbol itself is the argument.

what substance do you need that wouldn't be a repitition of established history?
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:26 PM   #78
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Originally posted by Irvine511
since it is so well recognized, the symbol itself is the argument.

what substance do you need that wouldn't be a repitition of established history?
The gap between Alito's confirmation and the coat hanger is immense and the value is limited to the energizing of a political base.

I think we can move beyond that level of discussion here.
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Old 02-02-2006, 03:53 PM   #79
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Justice Alito's first vote

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/01/alito/index.html
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Old 02-02-2006, 03:55 PM   #80
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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In his first day on the job, Justice Samuel Alito broke ranks Wednesday night with the Supreme Court's conservatives by refusing to allow Missouri to execute death-row inmate Michael Taylor.

Alito sided with five other liberal and moderate justices in rejecting a second request to allow the state of Missouri to execute Taylor.
A clear failure of the VRWC....
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:00 PM   #81
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A clear failure of the VRWC....


here's hoping he pulls a Kennedy or O'Connor ...
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:06 PM   #82
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Alito's vote is line with Catholic teachings.

No surprises there.
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:10 PM   #83
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
A clear failure of the VRWC....

Seeing as your fond of using that phrase in an ironic way:-

"David Brock, a conservative turned liberal pundit, has said that there was, in fact, an effort to dredge up scandals against Clinton, which he had been party to; this was documented in his book, Blinded by the Right: The Conscience of an Ex-Conservative. He commented in an interview on The Daily Show that Hillary Clinton was essentially correct but wrong in the idea that it was "vast", saying it was actually a relatively small group. Adam Curtis also discusses these concepts in his documentary series The Power of Nightmares."

(from wikipedia.org)

Just a matter of interest NB, do you reject the idea of ALL right wing conspiracies?
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:19 PM   #84
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I am sure there are plenty of energies spent advancing one political party's agenda over another, or looking for ways to undermine a political opponent. An unfortunate part of today's political landscape.

Given that a conspiracy only needs two or more people; then, yes I am sure they exist.

But the reference to the VRWC is that mythical beast that frustrates every attempt by the Democrats to regain significance in the current political landscape.
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:23 PM   #85
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I am sure there are plenty of energies spent advancing one political party's agenda over another, or looking for ways to undermine a political opponent. An unfortunate part of today's political landscape.
True.
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:28 PM   #86
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I should add that it is one of the main reasons I detest politics and would never seek political office.

At the end of the day, it isn't about "best interests". Its about money and power.
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:00 PM   #87
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At the end of the day, it isn't about "best interests". Its about money and power.


it is, and i would argue that, at the end of the day, the people who are using the Democrats for money and power are simply less evil than the people who are using the Republicans for money and power.

sad that this is the only discernable difference.
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Old 02-22-2006, 10:28 AM   #88
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Old 02-22-2006, 11:48 AM   #89
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Oh, the crazy, secret initiation rituals of the Supreme Court.
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