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Old 02-01-2006, 01:25 AM   #61
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Originally posted by Irvine511
there's no merit to applying "the principle" to two entirely different situations. none.
I guess I still get the "cause I say so argument"
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:27 AM   #62
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Originally posted by Irvine511

your second statement is probably one only a male could make. and i say that as not only a male, but a male who is not in danger of getting anyone pregnant, ever.
I'm not sure if you are trying to be sexist, or just ignorant of the possible experiences of others on the board.
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:29 AM   #63
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He was approved by a margin of 58 to 42. I'd really like to see the breakdown of who voted for and against.
Funny, but few here probably remember that Scalia was approved 98-0.

For someone who is universally thought of as more moderate than Scalia, the opposition did nothing to bolster their case with their no votes.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:13 AM   #64
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Originally posted by the rockin edge


breakdown of votes
Cheers mate
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:31 AM   #65
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


That was the point of my interchange with Irvine. He even stated that he was being a bit humorous.

If you want to start a thread on abortion, do so. I'm not sure an independent evaluation of my interchange with Irvine is the best place to start.
Yes, you made that point to Irvine, and I'm making it to you. His post was a lighthearted way to make quite a serious, valid point.

You've attempted to suggest that my mention of abortion was off-subject (hence avoiding the question I raised), but it was discussed previously on this thread, so my comment was entirely appropriate.

Regarding "independent evaluation" LOL you're given me way too much credit. I simply commented that, while you often all on people to be balanced and problem-solve, you haven't attempted to do so yourself. Further, you posted from a "Well the Dems do it to", instead of simply saying that both parties should stop fearmongering. That's worth thinking about, Doug. I obviously can't force you to do so.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:57 AM   #66
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Yes, you made that point to Irvine, and I'm making it to you. His post was a lighthearted way to make quite a serious, valid point.

You've attempted to suggest that my mention of abortion was off-subject (hence avoiding the question I raised), but it was discussed previously on this thread, so my comment was entirely appropriate.

Regarding "independent evaluation" LOL you're given me way too much credit. I simply commented that, while you often all on people to be balanced and problem-solve, you haven't attempted to do so yourself. Further, you posted from a "Well the Dems do it to", instead of simply saying that both parties should stop fearmongering. That's worth thinking about, Doug. I obviously can't force you to do so.
Perhaps I missed an attempt to be "balanced and problem-solve" with a picture of a coat hanger or a back alley abortion - I take it you thought that was appropriate way to lead discussion. I wasn't going to play the game with a picture of an aborted fetus.

At this point, the abortion issues is still much of a red herring. There still are not enough votes to overturn Roe v. Wade outright. The laws proposed in a number of states will likely fail.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:59 AM   #67
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During the State of the Union, Alito looked like a guy who took the short bus to school.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:08 AM   #68
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During the State of the Union, Alito looked like a guy who took the short bus to school.
Give him a break, it was his first day on the job. He probably was worried about all the forms he has to fill out and learning the secret handshake..
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:45 AM   #69
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Give him a break, it was his first day on the job. He probably was worried about all the forms he has to fill out and learning the secret handshake..
True, it was probably a look of realizing everyday from here on out will be such a letdown compared to today.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:06 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess I still get the "cause I say so argument"


no, the burden of proof is on you to draw parallels between abortion and terrorist attacks if you're going to make the comparison to begin with.

i'm anxious to hear.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:09 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I'm not sure if you are trying to be sexist, or just ignorant of the possible experiences of others on the board.


i'm saying that it's difficult for you, as a man (and clearly evidenced by your statement), to put your physical self in the shoes of the dead woman who's picture you can see if you click on the link in my earlier post.

has nothing to do with sexism (though way to pull out a liberal "card"! now you've shifted the discussion and i have to ignore the original argument and worry about proving that i'm not sexist before i can say anything else!), and it seems as if, already, the women on the board agree with me.
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:57 AM   #72
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Originally posted by Irvine511
i'm saying that it's difficult for you, as a man (and clearly evidenced by your statement), to put your physical self in the shoes of the dead woman who's picture you can see if you click on the link in my earlier post.
No, I saw the picture. I appreciate the decency to change it to a link instead of its original posting. And I believe we were discussing the likelihood of individuals knowing people who’ve had abortions v. “back alley” abortions. Given that abortion has been legal for about as long as you’ve been alive, the statistical probability of my statement would hold true. Nothing about my ability to “understand” because I am a male.
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Old 02-01-2006, 11:58 AM   #73
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Originally posted by Irvine511
no, the burden of proof is on you to draw parallels between abortion and terrorist attacks if you're going to make the comparison to begin with.

i'm anxious to hear.
I see. Still no response.

My parallel was regarding the methodology of communication. Instead of an analysis of Supreme Court decisions on abortion related issues, the votes of the various members and the potential impact of Alito replacing O’Connor, we get a picture of a coat hanger. Not much different from using a change in color level to replace an explanation of a potential terrorist threat. I think we can move beyond simple pictures and look at the various factors underlying the issue.
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:01 PM   #74
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


No, I saw the picture. I appreciate the decency to change it to a link instead of its original posting. And I believe we were discussing the likelihood of individuals knowing people who’ve had abortions v. “back alley” abortions. Given that abortion has been legal for about as long as you’ve been alive, the statistical probability of my statement would hold true. Nothing about my ability to “understand” because I am a male.


right --- because i don't know any women older than me.
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:08 PM   #75
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

My parallel was regarding the methodology of communication. Instead of an analysis of Supreme Court decisions on abortion related issues, the votes of the various members and the potential impact of Alito replacing O’Connor, we get a picture of a coat hanger. Not much different from using a change in color level to replace an explanation of a potential terrorist threat. I think we can move beyond simple pictures and look at the various factors underlying the issue.

oh, okay, now you've created a comparison instead of implying that there simply was one and using that as the basis of an argument.

i think there's a huge, huge difference between the amount of women, pre-Roe, who had back-alley abortions (most probably not by coat hangers, but the methods use back then were probably little better) and the amount of people who have been the vicitm of a terrorist attack in the US. one is a reference to a technique that has become a symbol of a reason why abortion was made legal -- to protect women, and to enable women to determine when they will and will not be pregnant -- that has a strong historical basis in reality.

the "terror alert system" is a very modern creation, was used as little more than a political tool (as Tom Ridge has since admitted) to frighten urban residents and the nation at large with ominious warnings of unspecified threats -- you didn't know where, you didn't know when, you didn't know how, but somewhere something awful was going to happen, and the televised images of 9-11 were often invoked to lend credibility to this sense of fear.

the difference is that a coat hanger represents a long and specific history of a procedure that has affected thousands (millions?) of women with limited choice and agency, and the terror-alert system represents a murky threat that might or might not happen to someone at any given time.

there's a world of difference.

under the broad banner of "Political Symbols Used to Mean Things," there's a comparison. but that's about it.
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